Example of how Capitalists impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:30 pm Love Jesus Socialism 101
We have, in fact, a perfect test case of showing the difference between a society run by Socialism and a free society. The people involved are of the same genetic stock, live in the same part of the world, have the same history, the same language, the same traditional social values, everything. So they compare scientifically, just as one would wish. It couldn't be better if we planned it.

They are North and South Korea.

You'll never see the difference more perfectly illustrated than that.
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:57 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:30 pm Love Jesus Socialism 101
We have, in fact, a perfect test case of showing the difference between a society run by Socialism and a free society. The people involved are of the same genetic stock, live in the same part of the world, have the same history, the same language, the same traditional social values, everything. So they compare scientifically, just as one would wish. It couldn't be better if we planned it.

They are North and South Korea.

You'll never see the difference more perfectly illustrated than that.
It's a theocracy moron. Not a single socialist institution .
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Re: Example of how Capitalists impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

Post by Ansiktsburk »

1. The examples seem a bit naïve, all of them are on a “yep thats how the world runs” level. I do extremely seldom get shocked by ads or movements in society beneficial and supported by capitalists but more often inevitable due to the ways world take. Ok, the guy that invented likes regrets it and he should bloody well do.

2. There are middle ways btw socialism and capitalism, would say most western countries do follow such middle ways. Some by some social democratism, some by going Obama-Trump-Biden. Capitalism is a part of those mixes but noy the only part. Then of course thats noones Utopia. Certainly not mine. But like good enough. Capitalism with a state to contol it. Globalization is seemingly a problem, and of course not comfy for us western blue/white collars. But how big a problem that really is is debateable. The global capitalism say.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Sculptor wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:57 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:30 pm Love Jesus Socialism 101
We have, in fact, a perfect test case of showing the difference between a society run by Socialism and a free society. The people involved are of the same genetic stock, live in the same part of the world, have the same history, the same language, the same traditional social values, everything. So they compare scientifically, just as one would wish. It couldn't be better if we planned it.

They are North and South Korea.

You'll never see the difference more perfectly illustrated than that.
It's a theocracy moron. Not a single socialist institution .
North Korea a "theocracy"? :lol: You're SO funny!

It's a monolythic, avowedly Atheist, Communist state. However, South Korea is deeply religious, and in fact, has more Christians per capita than most countries on the planet. And it's doing rather well, compared to it's northern counterpart.

The perfect demonstration, really.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Example of how Capitalists impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Ansiktsburk wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:03 am Capitalism is a part of those mixes but noy the only part. Then of course thats noones Utopia. Certainly not mine. But like good enough.
Well, that's quite reasonable.

One of the great things about capitalism is it's not a utopian system. It has no "ideal" toward which it compels things. It's part of a provisional arrangement to get by in the best way we can, given the serious imperfections in the world and in human nature. It's a kind of trade-off or pragmatic arrangement, rather than an idealistic scheme.

And that's why it can operate successfully in the real world, whereas Socialism never has been able to at all. It does not do the things Socialism does, like demanding perfection, extinguishing all competitors, propagandizing, or having to pretend that human nature is trustworthy or perfectable when it's not. It assumes that things are flawed, and deals with that fact in a provisional way. And unlike idealistic, utopian schemes like Socialism, it's adaptable and possible to hybridize, according to how things go in the real world.

So it can be, as you say, "part" of a solution, without demanding it be made the total solution. It does not require the elimination of all other strategies and alternatives, but can live with them, and be modified by them.
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:05 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:57 pm
We have, in fact, a perfect test case of showing the difference between a society run by Socialism and a free society. The people involved are of the same genetic stock, live in the same part of the world, have the same history, the same language, the same traditional social values, everything. So they compare scientifically, just as one would wish. It couldn't be better if we planned it.

They are North and South Korea.

You'll never see the difference more perfectly illustrated than that.
It's a theocracy moron. Not a single socialist institution .
North Korea a "theocracy"? :lol: You're SO funny!
https://sunypress.edu/Books/I/Inside-No ... -Theocracy
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Sculptor wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:31 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:05 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 am It's a theocracy moron. Not a single socialist institution .
North Korea a "theocracy"? :lol: You're SO funny!
https://sunypress.edu/Books/I/Inside-No ... -Theocracy
That's hilarious. The Socialist dictator's uncle is eliminated, and this becomes evidence of "theocracy"? Classic. You clearly don't know the difference between writer's hyperbole (to sell books) and reality.

Making "gods" out of men is what Socialists do. It has nothing to do with authentic theology of any kind. It's humanist idolatry...and quite typical of all the other "gods" of Socialism...Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Lenin, Castro...and so on. They're a bunch of jumped-up men in fatigues, not gods. And worshipping them has nothing to do with the real God.

Do you actually read any of the books you recommend? Maybe you should.
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:56 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:31 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:05 pm
North Korea a "theocracy"? :lol: You're SO funny!
https://sunypress.edu/Books/I/Inside-No ... -Theocracy
That's hilarious. The Socialist dictator's uncle is eliminated, and this becomes evidence of "theocracy"? Classic. You clearly don't know the difference between writer's hyperbole (to sell books) and reality.

Making "gods" out of men is what Socialists do. It has nothing to do with authentic theology of any kind. It's humanist idolatry...and quite typical of all the other "gods" of Socialism...Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Lenin, Castro...and so on. They're a bunch of jumped-up men in fatigues, not gods. And worshipping them has nothing to do with the real God.

Do you actually read any of the books you recommend? Maybe you should.
Please indicate how NK complies with the ideas of socialism, or shut the fuck up idiot.
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:15 am Please indicate how NK complies with the ideas of socialism
By its open claims about itself, by its ideology, its economy, its beliefs, its governmental structures, its totalizing demand to control every area of life, its violence, its disfunctionality, its failure as a utopian experiment...all the ways Socialist states always fail.
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:16 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:15 am Please indicate how NK complies with the ideas of socialism
By its open claims about itself, by its ideology, its economy, its beliefs, its governmental structures, its totalizing demand to control every area of life, its violence, its disfunctionality, its failure as a utopian experiment...all the ways Socialist states always fail.
Please indicate how NK complies with the ideas of socialism?
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:04 pm Please indicate how NK complies with the ideas of socialism?
Let's start with what it says it is: its own ideological claims. Then we'll look at economics, its politics...Then we'll go from there.

So, its ideological claims: North Korea claims to be a Socialist State. Explain to me why they're wrong about what they think they are.
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:59 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:04 pm Please indicate how NK complies with the ideas of socialism?
Let's start with what it says it is: its own ideological claims. Then we'll look at economics, its politics...Then we'll go from there.

So, its ideological claims: North Korea claims to be a Socialist State.
And Catholics, Unitarians, Trinitarians, Baptists, Quakers, Shakers, Fakers And Rastafarians all claim to be Christians.
So why don't you stop squirming and answer the bloody question.

Please indicate how NK complies with the ideas of socialism?
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:29 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:59 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:04 pm Please indicate how NK complies with the ideas of socialism?
Let's start with what it says it is: its own ideological claims. Then we'll look at economics, its politics...Then we'll go from there.

So, its ideological claims: North Korea claims to be a Socialist State.
And Catholics, Unitarians, Trinitarians, Baptists, Quakers, Shakers, Fakers And Rastafarians all claim to be Christians.
Yes: and Atheists claim real Christians are supposed to answer for all of them. Silly, isn't it?

But more to the present point, the North Koreans claim to be Socialists. But you say they're not.

I can explain why Unitarians or Fakers or Rastafarians or whatever are not real Christians, and satisfy any rational hearer. I'll even satisfy you on such points, if you care to discuss them and assuming you intend to be rational. I don't suppose you actually care, but I'm up for that.

Now, the North Koreans say they are Socialists. You say they are lying or deceived about that, because you say North Korea's not a Socialist State. So now, tell me why you deny the word of so many people. I'm not saying you could have no reason: I'd just like to hear what it is, and if it's rational, I'll agree.
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Re: Example of how Socailsits impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:49 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:29 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:59 pm
Let's start with what it says it is: its own ideological claims. Then we'll look at economics, its politics...Then we'll go from there.

So, its ideological claims: North Korea claims to be a Socialist State.
And Catholics, Unitarians, Trinitarians, Baptists, Quakers, Shakers, Fakers And Rastafarians all claim to be Christians.
Yes: and Atheists claim real Christians are supposed to answer for all of them. Silly, isn't it?
Listen to the council of your own words.
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Re: Example of how Capitalists impose harm upon the poor DIRECTLY...

Post by Belinda »

Given that capitalism is most associated with right wing regimes how do those regimes influence voters?
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