Ukraine Crisis

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promethean75
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by promethean75 »

Hey Pop u know I already explained all this mess on page two if u missed it. You're wrong of course in the way u think Ukraine isn't a legitimate country or that alliances can't and shouldn't be formed among consenting countries.

Yeah you're right about American aggression and colonialism but that aggression isn't what NATO is about. Or rather, that aggression isn't expressed in or by NATO.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:00 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:44 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:38 pm I suspect you are one of Putin's internet trolls, the reason for my inquiry concerning your nationality.
Nato is a function of American aggression; how do you think the Yanks would feel about a Russian military base in Canada? Do you think they would be alright with that? I am a Canadian, do you wish to know what color?
Forming a consentual aliance is not "aggression".
Then if there was a consensus America should be alright with Russian military bases on its borders-- yes? Always be selective where you take your consensus. Much of Europe has already whored itself to America in allowing American nuclear weapons to be deployed on their soils, they no longer own their sovereignty, America owns it. At least half the world disagrees with this righteous consensus.
Gary Childress
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:10 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:00 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:44 pm

Nato is a function of American aggression; how do you think the Yanks would feel about a Russian military base in Canada? Do you think they would be alright with that? I am a Canadian, do you wish to know what color?
Forming a consentual aliance is not "aggression".
Then if there was a consensus America should be alright with Russian military bases on its borders-- yes? Always be selective where you take your consensus. Much of Europe has already whored itself to America in allowing American nuclear weapons to be deployed on their soils, they no longer own their sovereignty, America owns it. At least half the world disagrees with this righteous consensus.
I was opposed to the invasion of Cuba as I was to the Israeli attack on Gaza. Countries need to work out their differences peacefully. I believe all the American invasions post WW2 were unjust and they also failed so all leaders should be taking note that militarism is not the way to go.

Really we the people should be moving for George Bush Jr to be tried Internationally as a war criminal. Examples should be set for those who think that leadership is a blank check for murder. I would vote unequivocally for whatever members of the Bush Jr. administration who were responsible for the wars to be turned over to the world court if the UN were to bring it up for vote. Granted, I'm not a proponent of the death penalty, but imprisonment would be appropriate.

Heck, I'd suggest Putin bring it up himself, if he wants to stick it the US leadership. Maybe use it as a bargaining chip for withdrawal from Ukraine.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:18 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:10 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:00 pm

Forming a consentual aliance is not "aggression".
Then if there was a consensus America should be alright with Russian military bases on its borders-- yes? Always be selective where you take your consensus. Much of Europe has already whored itself to America in allowing American nuclear weapons to be deployed on their soils, they no longer own their sovereignty, America owns it. At least half the world disagrees with this righteous consensus.
I was opposed to the invasion of Cuba as I was to the Israeli attack on Gaza. Countries need to work out their differences peacefully. I believe all the American invasions post WW2 were unjust and they also failed so all leaders should be taking note that militarism is not the way to go.
Really we the people should be moving for George Bush Jr to be tried Internationally as a war criminal. Examples should be set for those who think that leadership is a blank check for murder. I would vote unequivocally for whatever members of the Bush Jr. administration who were responsible for the wars to be turned over to the world court if the UN were to bring it up for vote. Granted, I'm not a proponent of the death penalty, but imprisonment would be appropriate. Heck, I'd suggest Putin bring it up himself, if he wants to stick it the US leadership. Maybe use it as a bargaining chip for withdrawal from Ukraine.
You sound like you have a sense of decency about you, and not nearly as politically naive as I thought you might be. America is the crime family of the globe, there just is no end to its crimes against humanity and it will remain that way as long as the corporations are running the show. There is a global power shift occurring presently, as you might guess; corporations have no soul and much of the world is reacting to counter this inhumanity. America is the only superpower and as such cannot be held accountable for the atrocities it commits, for the foreseeable future there will be no Nuremberg-like trials holding America accountable. There comes a time when one needs to recognize when a system is not serving its public but that the public is serving a corrupt system and putting the world in crisis.
Gary Childress
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:17 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:18 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:10 pm

Then if there was a consensus America should be alright with Russian military bases on its borders-- yes? Always be selective where you take your consensus. Much of Europe has already whored itself to America in allowing American nuclear weapons to be deployed on their soils, they no longer own their sovereignty, America owns it. At least half the world disagrees with this righteous consensus.
I was opposed to the invasion of Cuba as I was to the Israeli attack on Gaza. Countries need to work out their differences peacefully. I believe all the American invasions post WW2 were unjust and they also failed so all leaders should be taking note that militarism is not the way to go.
Really we the people should be moving for George Bush Jr to be tried Internationally as a war criminal. Examples should be set for those who think that leadership is a blank check for murder. I would vote unequivocally for whatever members of the Bush Jr. administration who were responsible for the wars to be turned over to the world court if the UN were to bring it up for vote. Granted, I'm not a proponent of the death penalty, but imprisonment would be appropriate. Heck, I'd suggest Putin bring it up himself, if he wants to stick it the US leadership. Maybe use it as a bargaining chip for withdrawal from Ukraine.
You sound like you have a sense of decency about you, and not nearly as politically naive as I thought you might be. America is the crime family of the globe, there just is no end to its crimes against humanity and it will remain that way as long as the corporations are running the show. There is a global power shift occurring presently, as you might guess; corporations have no soul and much of the world is reacting to counter this inhumanity. America is the only superpower and as such cannot be held accountable for the atrocities it commits, for the foreseeable future there will be no Nuremberg-like trials holding America accountable. There comes a time when one needs to recognize when a system is not serving its public but that the public is serving a corrupt system and putting the world in crisis.
If you want to say "America is a crime family" that's fine. I understand where you're coming from, however, I prefer to say that those currently in power in the US are the "crime family", so long as they act criminally. I think it's more accurate. I don't dismiss the possibility that there can be good leadership. I don't dismiss the possibility that any human being (even a corrupt leader) can turn things around with a few brave decisions or that better leaders can be found to make those decisions (Ghandi, MLK Jr., Christ, as well as innumerable other lesser known ones). Of course, setting a new non-militaristic course involves some degree of sacrifice and faith. If this cannot happen, then we may as well kiss ourselves and our world goodbye now, and that's a level of pessimism I'd like to think is unwarranted. But If so, then I do question what kind of being created this world, (if there is indeed a God at all).
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:10 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:17 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:18 pm

I was opposed to the invasion of Cuba as I was to the Israeli attack on Gaza. Countries need to work out their differences peacefully. I believe all the American invasions post WW2 were unjust and they also failed so all leaders should be taking note that militarism is not the way to go.
Really we the people should be moving for George Bush Jr to be tried Internationally as a war criminal. Examples should be set for those who think that leadership is a blank check for murder. I would vote unequivocally for whatever members of the Bush Jr. administration who were responsible for the wars to be turned over to the world court if the UN were to bring it up for vote. Granted, I'm not a proponent of the death penalty, but imprisonment would be appropriate. Heck, I'd suggest Putin bring it up himself, if he wants to stick it the US leadership. Maybe use it as a bargaining chip for withdrawal from Ukraine.
You sound like you have a sense of decency about you, and not nearly as politically naive as I thought you might be. America is the crime family of the globe, there just is no end to its crimes against humanity and it will remain that way as long as the corporations are running the show. There is a global power shift occurring presently, as you might guess; corporations have no soul and much of the world is reacting to counter this inhumanity. America is the only superpower and as such cannot be held accountable for the atrocities it commits, for the foreseeable future there will be no Nuremberg-like trials holding America accountable. There comes a time when one needs to recognize when a system is not serving its public but that the public is serving a corrupt system and putting the world in crisis.
If you want to say "America is a crime family" that's fine. I understand where you're coming from, however, I prefer to say that those currently in power in the US are the "crime family", so long as they act criminally. I think it's more accurate. I don't dismiss the possibility that there can be good leadership. I don't dismiss the possibility that any human being (even a corrupt leader) can turn things around with a few brave decisions or that better leaders can be found to make those decisions (Gandhi, MLK Jr., Christ, as well as innumerable other lesser-known ones). Of course, setting a new non-militaristic course involves some degree of sacrifice and faith. If this cannot happen, then we may as well kiss ourselves and our world goodbye now, and that's a level of pessimism I'd like to think is unwarranted. But if so, then I do question what kind of being created this world, (if there is indeed a God at all).
The corporations have no more humanity than the psychopathic boys club they call the Mafia, in fact they are bedfellows, birds of a feather; together they are the American government. The American people are powerless, programed, and manipulated to behave precisely the way the power elite directs their path. I wish it were not so, I wish there was some hope the American people could take back a government for the people and by the people but that is not realistic. America tends to shoot virtuous leaders both at home and abroad, it is all about feeding the corporations, read the war machine. I don't even see a glowing amber in the darkness of what was once the American dream, America is a darkness, a blight upon the world. Russia, India, China, the middle east and Asia are uniting to counteract this evil and together their might will overcome the American empire as they should, for America has not been a kind master. They use religion in America to manipulate a dumbed down population, treating the public as so much livestock to be channeled here or there. Personally, I do not believe one can believe in God if one is in the habit of using one's critical thinking capacity, even if it is just used to know nature in any depth for then those archaic beliefs just melt away.
Gary Childress
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:00 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:10 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:17 pm

You sound like you have a sense of decency about you, and not nearly as politically naive as I thought you might be. America is the crime family of the globe, there just is no end to its crimes against humanity and it will remain that way as long as the corporations are running the show. There is a global power shift occurring presently, as you might guess; corporations have no soul and much of the world is reacting to counter this inhumanity. America is the only superpower and as such cannot be held accountable for the atrocities it commits, for the foreseeable future there will be no Nuremberg-like trials holding America accountable. There comes a time when one needs to recognize when a system is not serving its public but that the public is serving a corrupt system and putting the world in crisis.
If you want to say "America is a crime family" that's fine. I understand where you're coming from, however, I prefer to say that those currently in power in the US are the "crime family", so long as they act criminally. I think it's more accurate. I don't dismiss the possibility that there can be good leadership. I don't dismiss the possibility that any human being (even a corrupt leader) can turn things around with a few brave decisions or that better leaders can be found to make those decisions (Gandhi, MLK Jr., Christ, as well as innumerable other lesser-known ones). Of course, setting a new non-militaristic course involves some degree of sacrifice and faith. If this cannot happen, then we may as well kiss ourselves and our world goodbye now, and that's a level of pessimism I'd like to think is unwarranted. But if so, then I do question what kind of being created this world, (if there is indeed a God at all).
The corporations have no more humanity than the psychopathic boys club they call the Mafia, in fact they are bedfellows, birds of a feather; together they are the American government. The American people are powerless, programed, and manipulated to behave precisely the way the power elite directs their path. I wish it were not so, I wish there was some hope the American people could take back a government for the people and by the people but that is not realistic. America tends to shoot virtuous leaders both at home and abroad, it is all about feeding the corporations, read the war machine. I don't even see a glowing amber in the darkness of what was once the American dream, America is a darkness, a blight upon the world. Russia, India, China, the middle east and Asia are uniting to counteract this evil and together their might will overcome the American empire as they should, for America has not been a kind master. They use religion in America to manipulate a dumbed down population, treating the public as so much livestock to be channeled here or there. Personally, I do not believe one can believe in God if one is in the habit of using one's critical thinking capacity, even if it is just used to know nature in any depth for then those archaic beliefs just melt away.
It's difficult to believe in a loving God. But sometimes I get the uncanny feeling that something conscious is running the show. More than that, I do not know.
Gary Childress
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

Actually, I'll rephrase that. It's difficult for me to believe in a loving God but perhaps I don't deserve love. That's always a possibility as well.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:50 am
popeye1945 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:00 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:10 pm

If you want to say "America is a crime family" that's fine. I understand where you're coming from, however, I prefer to say that those currently in power in the US are the "crime family", so long as they act criminally. I think it's more accurate. I don't dismiss the possibility that there can be good leadership. I don't dismiss the possibility that any human being (even a corrupt leader) can turn things around with a few brave decisions or that better leaders can be found to make those decisions (Gandhi, MLK Jr., Christ, as well as innumerable other lesser-known ones). Of course, setting a new non-militaristic course involves some degree of sacrifice and faith. If this cannot happen, then we may as well kiss ourselves and our world goodbye now, and that's a level of pessimism I'd like to think is unwarranted. But if so, then I do question what kind of being created this world, (if there is indeed a God at all).
The corporations have no more humanity than the psychopathic boys club they call the Mafia, in fact they are bedfellows, birds of a feather; together they are the American government. The American people are powerless, programed, and manipulated to behave precisely the way the power elite directs their path. I wish it were not so, I wish there was some hope the American people could take back a government for the people and by the people but that is not realistic. America tends to shoot virtuous leaders both at home and abroad, it is all about feeding the corporations, read the war machine. I don't even see a glowing amber in the darkness of what was once the American dream, America is a darkness, a blight upon the world. Russia, India, China, the middle east and Asia are uniting to counteract this evil and together their might will overcome the American empire as they should, for America has not been a kind master. They use religion in America to manipulate a dumbed down population, treating the public as so much livestock to be channeled here or there. Personally, I do not believe one can believe in God if one is in the habit of using one's critical thinking capacity, even if it is just used to know nature in any depth for then those archaic beliefs just melt away.
It's difficult to believe in a loving God. But sometimes I get the uncanny feeling that something conscious is running the show. More than that, I do not know.
Well, we are all part of something larger than ourselves. I just do not think it is anything like the anthropomorphic God of the desert religions. It is a great mystery, one that can stir us to awe. I think all the traditional religions have too small a God to do right by the cosmos. Perhaps we need a new mythology to take us into the future, one that does not close the door to wonder.
Gary Childress
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:08 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:50 am
popeye1945 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:00 pm

The corporations have no more humanity than the psychopathic boys club they call the Mafia, in fact they are bedfellows, birds of a feather; together they are the American government. The American people are powerless, programed, and manipulated to behave precisely the way the power elite directs their path. I wish it were not so, I wish there was some hope the American people could take back a government for the people and by the people but that is not realistic. America tends to shoot virtuous leaders both at home and abroad, it is all about feeding the corporations, read the war machine. I don't even see a glowing amber in the darkness of what was once the American dream, America is a darkness, a blight upon the world. Russia, India, China, the middle east and Asia are uniting to counteract this evil and together their might will overcome the American empire as they should, for America has not been a kind master. They use religion in America to manipulate a dumbed down population, treating the public as so much livestock to be channeled here or there. Personally, I do not believe one can believe in God if one is in the habit of using one's critical thinking capacity, even if it is just used to know nature in any depth for then those archaic beliefs just melt away.
It's difficult to believe in a loving God. But sometimes I get the uncanny feeling that something conscious is running the show. More than that, I do not know.
Well, we are all part of something larger than ourselves. I just do not think it is anything like the anthropomorphic God of the desert religions. It is a great mystery, one that can stir us to awe. I think all the traditional religions have too small a God to do right by the cosmos. Perhaps we need a new mythology to take us into the future, one that does not close the door to wonder.
I used to possess awe and wonder. But it's difficult to keep those things alive while tranquilized on psychotropic meds. So I wish I could relate, however, very little stirs me to "awe" and "wonder" anymore. The only thing I wonder at this moment is whether God is punishing me, really.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:04 am Actually, I'll rephrase that. It's difficult for me to believe in a loving God but perhaps I don't deserve love. That's always a possibility as well.
One, like all creatures, is born into the world in utter innocence. It is a harsh world, one where life sustains itself on the life of other creatures. All creatures under these circumstances deserve the love of their fellow creatures.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:12 am
popeye1945 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:08 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:50 am

It's difficult to believe in a loving God. But sometimes I get the uncanny feeling that something conscious is running the show. More than that, I do not know.
Well, we are all part of something larger than ourselves. I just do not think it is anything like the anthropomorphic God of the desert religions. It is a great mystery, one that can stir us to awe. I think all the traditional religions have too small a God to do right by the cosmos. Perhaps we need a new mythology to take us into the future, one that does not close the door to wonder.
I used to possess awe and wonder. But it's difficult to keep those things alive while tranquilized on psychotropic meds. So I wish I could relate, however, very little stirs me to "awe" and "wonder" anymore. The only thing I wonder at this moment is whether God is punishing me, really.
I am sorry to hear you are so troubled, perhaps it is your past programming, tell me, were you born into a particular faith? If you want awe, go out into the country where it still gets dark and just open yourself to the cosmos, there is no grander cathedral than this.
Gary Childress
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:23 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:12 am
popeye1945 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:08 am

Well, we are all part of something larger than ourselves. I just do not think it is anything like the anthropomorphic God of the desert religions. It is a great mystery, one that can stir us to awe. I think all the traditional religions have too small a God to do right by the cosmos. Perhaps we need a new mythology to take us into the future, one that does not close the door to wonder.
I used to possess awe and wonder. But it's difficult to keep those things alive while tranquilized on psychotropic meds. So I wish I could relate, however, very little stirs me to "awe" and "wonder" anymore. The only thing I wonder at this moment is whether God is punishing me, really.
I am sorry to hear you are so troubled, perhaps it is your past programming, tell me, were you born into a particular faith? If you want awe, go out into the country where it still gets dark and just open yourself to the cosmos, there is no grander cathedral than this.
Shortly after I was born, I became an atheist after watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos. I had a lot of awe and wonder back then. But controlling schizophrenia requires very powerful medication. So they give me very powerful medication. End of story. I've endured on medication for over 30 years.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:38 am
popeye1945 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:23 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:12 am

I used to possess awe and wonder. But it's difficult to keep those things alive while tranquilized on psychotropic meds. So I wish I could relate, however, very little stirs me to "awe" and "wonder" anymore. The only thing I wonder at this moment is whether God is punishing me, really.
I am sorry to hear you are so troubled, perhaps it is your past programming, tell me, were you born into a particular faith? If you want awe, go out into the country where it still gets dark and just open yourself to the cosmos, there is no grander cathedral than this.
Shortly after I was born, I became an atheist after watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos. I had a lot of awe and wonder back then. But controlling schizophrenia requires very powerful medication. So, they give me very powerful medication. End of story. I've endured medication for over 30 years.
You do carry a heavy burden, at least acknowledge that much to yourself and take some pride in your own strength. I know enduring isn't the same as living a vital life but take what joys you can on your journey. If I were a religious person my prayers would be with you, some loving wishes will have to do. Take care Gary, my thoughts are with you!
Gary Childress
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:50 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:38 am
popeye1945 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:23 am

I am sorry to hear you are so troubled, perhaps it is your past programming, tell me, were you born into a particular faith? If you want awe, go out into the country where it still gets dark and just open yourself to the cosmos, there is no grander cathedral than this.
Shortly after I was born, I became an atheist after watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos. I had a lot of awe and wonder back then. But controlling schizophrenia requires very powerful medication. So, they give me very powerful medication. End of story. I've endured medication for over 30 years.
You do carry a heavy burden, at least acknowledge that much to yourself and take some pride in your own strength. I know enduring isn't the same as living a vital life but take what joys you can on your journey. If I were a religious person my prayers would be with you, some loving wishes will have to do. Take care Gary, my thoughts are with you!
Thank you, Popeye. I appreciate the wishes. If only wishes would make it so. As you know too well, in a world without religion, there isn't much hope of wishes becoming anything without work to make them so. But such is life. It's not all bad. I can always get back on a stable income through disability benefits, however, I've chosen to work for a living. It feels a little better at the end of the day. I just have a lot of difficulties really excelling in a "career" for the most part. My love life is pretty non-existent as well.
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