Ukraine Crisis

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Dontaskme
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:23 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:48 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:33 pm
I did, actually. The answer was "All of it." But let's not be technical.
Why questions?
You do. Endlessly, tediously, pointlessly.

So I'm jumping off this conversational "train" at the present station. There's nothing further down this track.
And just so you know. Only you can call yourself out on your own BS :shock:
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iambiguous
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by iambiguous »

I live near the Martin State Airport in Baltimore County.

And every Wednesday at 1:14 pm, they blast out one of those "this is a test" messages from the emergency broadcasting system.

It's just that today it dawned on me that any day now, it might not be a test at all!

Well, at least I'll have some warning.
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iambiguous
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by iambiguous »

Nuclear war...by accident?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/05/opin ... r-war.html

Michael Dobbs

'Even if we assume Mr. Putin is a rational actor who wishes to avoid nuclear annihilation, that is not necessarily reassuring. Contrary to popular belief, the biggest danger of nuclear war in October 1962 did not arise from the so-called eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation between Khrushchev and Kennedy but from their inability to control events that they themselves had set in motion.

'As I discovered when I assembled a minute-by-minute chronology of the most dangerous phase of the crisis, there were times when both leaders were unaware of developments on the battlefield that assumed a logic and momentum of their own.

'Khrushchev never authorized the shooting down of an American U-2 spy plane over Cuba by a Soviet missile on Oct. 27, 1962, the most dangerous day of the crisis. Kennedy was unaware that another U-2 strayed over Russian airspace the same day, triggering Soviet air defenses. “There’s always some sonofabitch that doesn’t get the word,” was how he put it later.'


Then this part:

'What both Kennedy and Khrushchev did possess was an intuitive understanding of the peril confronting not just their own countries but the entire world if the crisis was allowed to escalate. That is why they maintained a back channel to communicate with each other privately (through the president’s brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, and the Soviet ambassador to Washington, Anatoly Dobrynin) even as they denounced each other publicly. It is also why they acted swiftly to reach a compromise deal (kept secret for decades) that involved the dismantling of U.S. medium-range missiles in Turkey in exchange for a Soviet nuclear withdrawal from Cuba.'

Is some version of this now unfolding re Ukraine?

Then that sheer "existentially-rooted-in-dasein" factor:

'Like Kennedy, Khrushchev had experienced the horror of World War II. He knew that nuclear war would be many times more destructive. Kremlin archives show that for all his bloodcurdling rhetoric, Khrushchev was determined to find a peaceful solution as soon as it became clear that his nuclear gamble had failed. Mr. Putin, by contrast, has chosen to raise the stakes at every critical point. Escalation has become his preferred tactic.'

Place your bets.
popeye1945
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

What is Putin reacting to, is the sovereignty of Russian threatened? Who is the aggressor? What would you do in his place? China is surrounded by American military bases armed to the teeth, does this make China the aggressor? America as an empire has put the whole world in jeopardy. It is time not to be fooled by the black hats it has issued out to anyone resisting American aggression. Ukraine is a puppet, and the US is willing to use them as canon fodder to the last Ukrainian. American the beautiful will drag us into the abyss, all it really cares about is power. America is the mafia family of the globe, have you paid for their protection, protection from them?
Gary Childress
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:34 am What is Putin reacting to, is the sovereignty of Russian threatened? Who is the aggressor? What would you do in his place? China is surrounded by American military bases armed to the teeth, does this make China the aggressor? America as an empire has put the whole world in jeopardy. It is time not to be fooled by the black hats it has issued out to anyone resisting American aggression. Ukraine is a puppet, and the US is willing to use them as canon fodder to the last Ukrainian. American the beautiful will drag us into the abyss, all it really cares about is power. America is the mafia family of the globe, have you paid for their protection, protection from them?
I have to admit you are right. The President and the American oligarchs don't want to hear any discussion from the people about the threat of nuclear war. They aren't listening to the cries of those of us who are concerned about it. In fact, they're not even discussing it. All the Democraps are discussing right now is gun control or Roe v. Wade or getting Democrats elected in the mid-term elections. That's all the Democrats are about--getting elected. Our system is failing us.
popeye1945
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Gary Childress wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:11 am
popeye1945 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:34 am What is Putin reacting to, is the sovereignty of Russian threatened? Who is the aggressor? What would you do in his place? China is surrounded by American military bases armed to the teeth, does this make China the aggressor? America as an empire has put the whole world in jeopardy. It is time not to be fooled by the black hats it has issued out to anyone resisting American aggression. Ukraine is a puppet, and the US is willing to use them as cannon fodder for the last Ukrainian. America the beautiful will drag us into the abyss, all it cares about is power. America is the mafia family of the globe, have you paid for their protection, protection from them?
I have to admit you are right. The President and the American oligarchs don't want to hear any discussion from the people about the threat of nuclear war. They aren't listening to the cries of those of us who are concerned about it. They're not even discussing it. All the Democraps are discussing right now is gun control or Roe v. Wade or getting Democrats elected in the mid-term elections. That's all the Democrats are about--getting elected. Our system is failing us.
Hi Gary,
I don't think the oligarchy cares which party gets elected the battle between the two parties is a distraction from their evil intentions, which is as I've inferred global domination. The only way I can understand the situation is to think this oligarchy is a boys club of psychopaths not unlike the Mafia. I would not put it passed them that they have created this terrible division in the country, for chaos among the population makes them ineffective. The American empire is in decline, which makes it that much more dangerous than before. America has sucked third-world countries dry to feed the power of the empire, it has not globally been a kind master. They've push Putin to the wall, how insane is that? America's arrogance is going to back fire on them just as it did in Vietnam, we can only hope that this time it does not destroy the world.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Immanuel Can »

Leftists professor thinks the US blew up the pipeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woQKGOrjpYs

And Joe Biden?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxXr7Oe_toA

What's going on there?
popeye1945
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by popeye1945 »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:43 pm Leftists professor thinks the US blew up the pipeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woQKGOrjpYs

And Joe Biden?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxXr7Oe_toA

What's going on there?
Don't lose sight of the bigger picture, America has violence both overt and covert down to an art form, that much of the world can test to. America is not a nice guy. It depends upon its own people's level of ignorance to continue its global aggression, and having full control over the media is of great service to them. They always accuse the other guy of doing what they themselves are doing covertly. Nothing is to low for this empire to sink to, including putting the whole world in jeopardy for its insane goals. It claimed to be the supporter of freedom in Vietnam and supported the French effort to recolonize Vietnam, paying eighty percent of the cost of the French war. When the French were defeated at the battle of Diem Biem Phu America decided it could accomplish what the French failed to do. America is such a fraud to the core, and just might be our demise.
Walker
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:43 pm Leftists professor thinks the US blew up the pipeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woQKGOrjpYs

And Joe Biden?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxXr7Oe_toA

What's going on there?
A destroyed energy pipeline to Europe unites Europe in hatred of America, if the US can be proven to be at fault, whether that proof be orchestrated or real.

One of Biden's first official acts as president was to begin a campaign of crippling coal and oil.
He has succeeded in ending the US energy independence, and Saudi Arabia will not meet the US energy needs.
Oil from Venezuela is good for paving roads.
Biden promised to end Russia's energy pipeline to Germany.
The appearance of the US crippling Europe for the winter is justification for Russia.

The first statement is sound reasoning.
The rest are facts.

Conclusion: The United States needs to be destroyed before it can be rebuilt in the image of the woke.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Immanuel Can »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:58 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:43 pm Leftists professor thinks the US blew up the pipeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woQKGOrjpYs

And Joe Biden?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxXr7Oe_toA

What's going on there?
America has violence both overt and covert down to an art form...
Well, that's maybe too much of a generalization. However, the mainline media in North America is absolutely insisting that either some nameless terrorist organization must have done it, for unspecifiable reasons, or that Putin blew up his own pipeline; and that anybody who even suggests that the Biden admin. or its proxies had anything to do with it is simply parrotting Russian propaganda. That's the story they're selling.

It's hard to see, though, why Putin would bother to go underwater to sabotage a pipeline he can simply turn off at the source, and then put back on whenever he wants to...a pipeline that's making him a wad of cash, and which keeps Germany dependent on him. Why use helicopters? So it's all a very strange story; and nobody's even trying to explain exactly how Putin blowing up his own pipe would serve his interests and undermine the NATO interests...

So more needs to be revealed there; and that's something I think everybody probably has to recognize.
Walker
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:38 pm So it's all a very strange story; and nobody's even trying to explain exactly how Putin blowing up his own pipe would serve his interests and undermine the NATO interests...
A blown-up pipeline is different than a shut-off pipeline.
A blown-up pipeline is not Putin's fault.

Putin can still use pre-pipeline methods to move oil.

It's the long game of world opinion against the evil US.
Obviously, by blowing up the pipeline of energy, the US wants to kill women, children, and men this coming cold winter.

It's why the US stopped their own oil production.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Immanuel Can »

Walker wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:53 pm It's the long game of world opinion against the evil US.
By whom? Are you actually going to argue that Putin blew up his own pipeline purely as a PR move, to make the world think America is bad?

Really? :shock:

That doesn't seem obvious. It also doesn't seem to have worked terribly well. Putin's name is still mud, and the Biden administration isn't taking responsibility, and the media in the US is spinning things as either Russian self-sabotage or the work of nameless others.

That's a pretty bad "long game," if that's what it is.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Immanuel Can »

Walker wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:27 pm Conclusion: The United States needs to be destroyed before it can be rebuilt in the image of the woke.
Not just the US, Walker. There seems to be a deliberate attempt to sabotage systems worldwide, invoking things like "equity," "fairness," "health" (in the case of "pandemics") "anti-racism" and "climate change," but deliberately doing all sorts of things to make the West economically unviable...so as to prove, it seems, that things like "nationhood," "individualism," "property," "rights," "free enterprise," "free speech," "independent media," "democracy" and so on are simply evil and dysfunctional, and a single, centralized Globalist Socialism is the only option.

It seems very concerted right now, but not so much as some kind of formal conspiracy (like the WEF, which is clearly an exception and very deliberate), as a general impulse among the global power-brokers to aim at a monolithic, controllable system they can exploit and upon which they can experiment for their various plans.
Walker
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:04 pm
That's a pretty bad "long game," if that's what it is.
It would only take one winter of folks literally freezing to death. As they fade off into the sunset they will be thinking, If only the evil US had not made us wait so long for Putin's oil, we would be alive. But the rest of you fear not. Putin's trucks, filled with that warmth, that life-giving oil, that gift from God, even now they are on the horizon, rolling in to save the day. Praise be to Putin! He saved us from the Evil Empire!

Do not underestimate propaganda. Look at what it has done to half of the US population. They voted for Biden, in record numbers no less. Then, they defend the obvious sketchy election that was orchestrated to the tune of Covid Emergency, That's What You Areeee. This is the tragedy of TDS.

Rest assured, the response to the next "emergency," will go according to the twisted virus of TDS, if the Left still has the reins. TDS caused the last screwy response, after Trump left office. Everything had to be done the opposite of the way Trump would have done it, so deep goes the affliction.

TDS is in the blood of the afflicted forever, like the Covid-19 jabs, like iron.

If I recall correctly, Trump emphasized that the vaccine would be available in record time, for those who wanted it. Then he left office and in stepped the totalitarians, screwing around with everyone's lives.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by Immanuel Can »

Walker wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:07 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:04 pm That's a pretty bad "long game," if that's what it is.
It would only take one winter of folks literally freezing to death. As they fade off into the sunset they will be thinking, If only the evil US had not made us wait so long for Putin's oil, we would be alive. But the rest of you fear not. Putin's trucks, filled with that warmth, that life-giving oil, that gift from God, even now they are on the horizon, rolling in to save the day. Praise be to Putin! He saved us from the Evil Empire!
No, that theory doesn't really work, for numerous reasons.

If that were the game, then it wouldn't work if Biden hadn't already choked off American oil production. Otherwise, America would just step in and become the hero of the story, saving the Germans. So Putin would need Biden's collusion...and I don't think we can imagine that's what's going on.

And you think Putin has any reasonable expectation of trucking oil to Germany? He's at war...how's that going to work out? Are his opponents just going to turn a blind eye to that?

Anyway, why would Putin need helicopters and explosives in the North Sea to destroy a pipeline he can turn off at a whim? Again, that just doesn't add up.

There needs to be a better explanation. Information is missing here.
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