Ukraine Crisis

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iambiguous
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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From ILP:
Meno_ wrote:But then?



https://youtu.be/4-GOLASvJDM
But then...but then...but then...but then.

Depending on who is being interviewed regarding what they know about what is unfolding inside Putin's head.

That's the whole point of this thread though. That given the gap between what Hodges thinks and what we think and what Putin thinks -- re dasein -- there lies a whole boat load of possibilities.

Okay, but one of those possibilities includes nuclear war.

So, existentially, how far would you go to stop Putin in Ukraine if you were Biden or Pelosi?

Again, each of us as individuals has our own "set of circumstances".

But one thing for sure, if it does come to a nuclear war, our options are likely to be considerably more restricted than those who bring this war about.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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World wars seem like a generational ritual kind of event, sort of par for the course for humanity, what else to expect from nature. Can't take the natural beast out of the beast. Unless your a religious control freak.

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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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iambiguous
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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Thomas L. Friedman

'The War Is Getting More Dangerous for America, and Biden Knows It'

'If you just followed news reports on Ukraine, you might think that the war has settled into a long, grinding and somewhat boring slog. You would be wrong.

'Things are actually getting more dangerous by the day.

'For starters, the longer this war goes on, the more opportunity for catastrophic miscalculations — and the raw material for that is piling up fast and furious. Take the two high-profile leaks from American officials this past week about U.S. involvement in the Russia-Ukraine war:

'First, The Times disclosed that “the United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war, according to senior American officials.” Second, The Times, following a report by NBC News and citing U.S. officials, reported that America has “provided intelligence that helped Ukrainian forces locate and strike” the Moskva, the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet. This targeting assistance “contributed to the eventual sinking” of the Moskva by two Ukrainian cruise missiles.

'The staggering takeaway from these leaks is that they suggest we are no longer in an indirect war with Russia but rather edging toward a direct war — and no one has prepared the American people or Congress for that.

'Vladimir Putin surely has no illusions about how much the U.S. and NATO are arming Ukraine with material and intelligence, but when American officials start to brag in public about playing a role in killing Russian generals and sinking the Russian flagship, killing many sailors, we could be creating an opening for Putin to respond in ways that could dangerously widen this conflict — and drag the U.S. in deeper than it wants to be.

'It is doubly dangerous, senior U.S. officials say, because it is increasingly obvious to them that Putin’s behavior is not as predictable as it has been in the past. And Putin is running out of options for some kind of face-saving success on the ground — or even a face-saving off ramp.'


My own thinking exactly. Biden and others are practically daring Putin to up the ante.

Stay tuned for "Victory Day" in Moscow on Monday.

'It is traditionally a day of military parades and celebration of the prowess of the Russian Army. Putin could mobilize even more soldiers, make some other provocation or do nothing at all. But no one knows.'

Anyone here know?

'My bottom line echoes my top line — and I can’t underscore it enough: We need to stick as tightly as possible to our original limited and clearly defined aim of helping Ukraine expel Russian forces as much as possible or negotiate for their withdrawal whenever Ukraine’s leaders feel the time is right.

'But we are dealing with some incredibly unstable elements, particularly a politically wounded Putin. Boasting about killing his generals and sinking his ships, or falling in love with Ukraine in ways that will get us enmeshed there forever, is the height of folly.'


Hear! Hear!
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Dontaskme
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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The irreversible problem with human living organisms is that once the pandora's box of knowledge is opened, that's the end of peace for them.

Throwing fire at fire is never the path to peace. The only real path to peace is to die. That's an 'absolute' truth that most people find hard to swallow.

There are no peace talks. . for human living organisms, there is only war, the survival of the fittest, and the fittest, if there are any survivors at all, will have to start all over again from scratch...only then to go extinct anyway due to natural factors beyond our control.

Sisyphus teaches us to never give in to circumstantial disappointments or try to escape from the failures, rather accept failures the same way we accept our achievements.

You only live once.. you only die once...that's the only good news, is that you only have to do this once.
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iambiguous
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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From the NYT:

'Ukraine Live Updates: Putin Defends War, Without Signaling Escalation

'The Russian leader praised his forces but announced no change in the military campaign, in a defiant speech at the annual Victory Day parade that marks the defeat of Nazi Germany.'


Over and again: what's it all mean?

Some were predicting that Putin would use the occasion to ominously "raise the stakes" as the West continues ominously to facilitate the Ukrainian forces in their battles against the Russians.

But, no, nothing like that at all.

At least nothing actually communicated to the world.

So, it's back to what we don't know regarding what is now unfolding inside Putin's head. Dasein on steroids. Where does he draw the line here? And what is playing out "behind the curtains" on both sides of this "historic event"?
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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iambiguous wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:33 pm From the NYT:

'Ukraine Live Updates: Putin Defends War, Without Signaling Escalation

'The Russian leader praised his forces but announced no change in the military campaign, in a defiant speech at the annual Victory Day parade that marks the defeat of Nazi Germany.'


Over and again: what's it all mean?

Some were predicting that Putin would use the occasion to ominously "raise the stakes" as the West continues ominously to facilitate the Ukrainian forces in their battles against the Russians.

But, no, nothing like that at all.

At least nothing actually communicated to the world.

So, it's back to what we don't know regarding what is now unfolding inside Putin's head. Dasein on steroids. Where does he draw the line here? And what is playing out "behind the curtains" on both sides of this "historic event"?
Dasein does not imply pacifism.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:15 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:12 am As far as the War goes: "Fear is the mind killer." To hell with Russia's fears.

If I had my way, yep here comes the fantasy, ANY one that killed innocence should immediately be vaporized on the spot, killed, murdered, assassinated instantly by the LIFE "FORCE." Yes, "let the force be with you." ;-) Let's face it, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Any/all, that wield such powers know/believe the bravery of being out of range. THEY NEED to be educated as to the things they do, what they are, the true reflection in their mirror, and there's no teacher better than experience. No puny human should attempt to play god. To act as if they could possibly know who deserves to die due to their 'fear' of not wanting to die, to become the very thing they fear, True Insanity. That's been the bane of our legacy, our history since prehistoric times, nothing more than fucking archaic monkeys!! The entire planet should call for Putin's immediate assassination, for the murdering of the innocense. And not just for him, rather for any that kill the innocence of children or the ignorant, in the name of their 'fear' of the same.

These type humans have mince-meant for brains, I like to call them 'brain dead fucks', of course they have absolutely no idea of what ALL THIS is, but what's so utterly pathetic is that they have absolutely no idea what's inside their head. So let's either put them in a rubber room with one of those usually white jackets with the long arms that tie in the back, so they won't kill their therapist out of fear, or if not, put them completely out of their misery, as those insane fucks would do to others that want to live just like they do, only slightly different, lets show them what they do, in all the ways they have done it to others! Lesson learned! A lesson too late, unfortunate for them, just like all their victims.
Showing contempt is of no use, what's that going to solve?
Kill the sole Responsible killer to stop the mass killing of innocence he perpetrated, seems like a fair trade to me: the one guilty for the many innocent.

Humans are already dead behind the eyes.
Incorrect! Some humans are brain dead, not all!

So there is nothing to win or nothing to lose here...
You don't truly believe that or you would have killed yourself long ago.

While we are all busy 'Drowning'
No, the few are drowning the many.

....the universe will just continue to exist.....
That's not what you truly care about, or you would have taken lives including yours.

the same as it ever was...same as it ever was...same as it ever was..
"Talking Heads" aside, see above^

There are no life jackets on the lifeboat ...we're all DROWNING
There are life boats, they're in some of our 'talking heads', just speak the truth and they appear.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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Dontaskme wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:56 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:52 am Sorry sweetie but he proved he was mad when he murdered innocence.

As far as all the other crap goes, I might agree with you, I'd have to do more research first.

But as to Putin being "bat shit crazy," there's no doubt at all. Unless you believe that you should murder an innocent child for something a completely different adult did to you. Well do you?
Missed this one SOB...

My Response....

Weapons kill people, and people make dangerous weapons that kill people...therefore anyone participating in the weapon making industry is complicit with the premeditated intent to murder people.

No one seems to care about the Ukrainian people who are dying, especially NATO....Nato is only interested in supplying them with more weapons...the benefit of weapon use has one purpose only, and that is to make some people very rich...the people who work and engineer the corporations responsible for dangerous weapon manufacturing.

Money is the root of all this kind of evil...
Wrong!!!, money is a tool like everything else humans create, it's HUMAN SELFISHNESS that's the root of all evil. If you're a multi billionaire you can feed the world, or you can kill everyone but yourself.

profits before people has always been the motto of the elite billionairs...Reality of war is that for the rich to get richer...people have to die.

We are only ever in conflict with ourselves... we're only hurting ourself, man has no other predator.

Money is more important than people...and that's the sick truth of humanity.

When the first dominoe falls, the rest will fall too. What affects one will affect ALL...no one wins.

It seems to me now that humanity is just a business, and there is never any business without money being involved.


Big pharma is another super money making business that kills people.

Food is another weapon that kills people...the preservatives used in food are un-natural for the body and make it ill.

Death is the only reliable Pain relief.



.
SOB said: But as to Putin being "bat shit crazy," there's no doubt at all. Unless you believe that you should murder an innocent child for something a completely different adult did to you. Well do you?
Again!!! Well do You???? Answer the question or do you fear it?
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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Walker wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:56 pm Lots of talk, and reasons given for the talk, about small tactical nukes these days. The talk is on the uptick. It's like, we're being prepped.

If one blows up, the source will become a matter of propaganda, a question of who to believe.
Yeah and your fucking boy, trump, started this shit!
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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iambiguous wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:18 pm Here we go?

From the NYT:

'The United States marshaled allies on Tuesday to pledge more military support to Ukraine, accelerating the drive to halt Russia’s offensive and degrade its war machine, as Moscow accused the West of pursuing a proxy war and ignoring the “considerable” risk that it could spiral into a nuclear conflict.

President Vladimir V. Putin has portrayed the war in Ukraine as part of a broader struggle with the West, declaring when he launched the invasion in February that his bigger target was America’s “empire of lies.”'


All I can say is that I hope Biden has the best possible intel regarding what is unfolding now inside Putin's head. Because if the intel is fucked up and Putin is prepared to jack up the conflict all the way to a nuclear exchange, we may all become collateral damage here.
As obviously crazy as he is, he knows, (along with all his cronies), what will happen, and remember that he, (and his cronies), are supposedly fighting to 'win'. A nuclear war is DEFINITELY A NO WIN SCENARIO FOR EVERYONE!!" EVERYONE!!!!
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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iambiguous wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:05 pm Why Biden Saying ‘Genocide’ Doesn’t Matter
ROSS DOUTHAT in the NYT

'Just over a week ago, Joe Biden acted like Joe Biden and called the Russian campaign in Ukraine a “genocide” — leaping ahead of our major allies, our State Department and the available facts.

'The comment prompted head-shaking from people nervous about American escalation and praise from people seeking it (notably, the president of Ukraine). I am generally on the side of the nervous people: In a conflict with a nuclear power there is always an interest in reducing the existential stakes, and accusations of genocide should be made only with the clearest possible evidence, just as calls for regime change (Biden’s previous Bidenism, which had to be walked back) should be made, well, practically never.'

Disagree! Words are words and weapons are weapons, two distinctly different things. I remember a saying that us kids said back in the sixties and seventies: "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me." The one that allows words to be their bane are the fools that are easily goaded, not very bright, and are those that are guilty of actually causing a war. Go ahead, call me anything, I'll just laugh in your face as being the immature fool that you are for doing so.

Here we go again. Go after Putin for all of his dark dirty deeds in Ukraine. But how far is going too far if it risks a nuclear war?

'And then we have the recent case of China’s oppression of its Uyghur minority, which our State Department declared to be a genocide in early 2021 — a declaration that did not exactly lead to serious international consequences for the regime in Beijing.

This last example is especially relevant for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, in the sense that it answers a question raised by Biden’s genocide comment. If a nuclear-armed power commits crimes against humanity in territory that it controls, will the United States go to war to stop it? Go ask the Uyghurs. Or, for that matter, the Chechens, who certainly suffered as much from Russian cruelty as the Ukrainians, without anyone suggesting that we might risk a nuclear war for their sake.'


That's the world we live in today. On the one hand, the existence of nuclear weapons has probably acted to prevent World War III. There's only so far nations can go in confronting other nations in possession of the means to destroy civilization itself as we know it. Mutually assured destruction keeps the conflicts contained.

But each new confrontation results in contingencies -- exigencies -- that may or may not be or become beyond our control. And with Putin there are variables no one is really sure of. What might push him over the edge?
So you really believe he'll actually put a gun to his head? Is that why you think he started this war with Ukraine? To kill himself and his entire country? Because that would probably be his end in such a case. SUICIDE!

Something Biden says? Something the West does?

Maybe Biden using the word genocide does matter. Maybe arming Ukraine with bigger and better weapons will trigger the "madman" to "go nuclear".
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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SpheresOfBalance wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:06 pm
iambiguous wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:18 pm Here we go?

From the NYT:

'The United States marshaled allies on Tuesday to pledge more military support to Ukraine, accelerating the drive to halt Russia’s offensive and degrade its war machine, as Moscow accused the West of pursuing a proxy war and ignoring the “considerable” risk that it could spiral into a nuclear conflict.

President Vladimir V. Putin has portrayed the war in Ukraine as part of a broader struggle with the West, declaring when he launched the invasion in February that his bigger target was America’s “empire of lies.”'


All I can say is that I hope Biden has the best possible intel regarding what is unfolding now inside Putin's head. Because if the intel is fucked up and Putin is prepared to jack up the conflict all the way to a nuclear exchange, we may all become collateral damage here.
As obviously crazy as he is, he knows, (along with all his cronies), what will happen, and remember that he, (and his cronies), are supposedly fighting to 'win'. A nuclear war is DEFINITELY A NO WIN SCENARIO FOR EVERYONE!!" EVERYONE!!!!
Sure, your guess is as good as mine as to what makes Putin tick. But who among us really knows for sure? He might find himself somewhere in the vicinity of defeat [whatever that means] in Ukraine. He uses chemical weapons or one of the smaller nuclear bombs to turn it around. And how will the West and Biden react to that.

There are many, many ways that things can slip out of control here. And perhaps the worst case scenario is one where the West is, in fact, able to bring Putin down. Then Russia starts to crumble from within. A "failed state" with 6,000 nuclear warheads.

Nope, I still say to the extent that Putin isn't Hitler, let him bring the Soviet Union back together sans Marxism.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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From the NYT

'Finland’s president and prime minister endorsed joining the alliance, another sign of how Russia’s invasion has strengthened NATO instead of weakening it. Moscow said it would “take necessary measures” to protect itself, as Vladimir Putin shows no sign of backing down in Ukraine.

'Russia on Thursday warned that Finland’s potential membership in NATO was a threat and said that it was prepared to “balance the situation,” characterizing any steps it takes in response as a necessary reaction forced on it by the alliance’s continued expansion.

'President Vladimir V. Putin has cited NATO’s spread eastward to countries on its borders as the primary national threat to Russia and has used Ukraine’s desire to join the alliance to justify his invasion of that country. Mr. Putin has accused the United States and its allies of fighting a “proxy war” by arming Kyiv’s forces.'




When I was a kid, one of the "my dick is bigger than your dick pissing contests" we engaged was "Chicken!"

Only, to the best of my knowledge, none of us had access to nuclear warheads.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

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When nuclear bombs start raining down. What you gonna do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWTJ8iZr7ro
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