simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:46 pm
"All political systems are corrupt."
Perhaps, but attention should be given to the question of how to prevent it, or quickly rectify it, where and when it can't be prevented. To do this, you have to collapse the hierarchical structures upon which it is built and open up routes of direct control, for the governed.
Corruption emanates from human nature. Although it can be attenuated, it can never be eliminated.
Here is a GREAT EXAMPLE of WHY corruption persisted for so long, back in the "olden days", when this was being written.
Those people would, literally, 'try to' "justify" absolutely ANY and ALL of their Wrong behaviors, no matter how blatantly OBVIOUS those behaviors were Wrong or bad.
On just about EVERY occasion when people were pulled up, in the days when this was being written, for their Wrong behaving they continually used the "this is just human natural behavior" EXCUSE, with the further "rationalization" of "it can never be eliminated" added on, like above.
If those people, back in those days, had spend half as much time and effort into just CHANGING their Wrong ways, instead of 'trying to' "justify" or "rationalize" those Wrong behaviors, then human beings would have moved forward a LONG TIME AGO, and would ALREADY be living thee Truly peaceful and harmonious life, which 'you', human beings, are eventually bound to end up living in.
The corruption you ARE DOING, CAN BE ELIMINATED. You just have to Honest, and OPEN, about the corruption you do while just seriously WANTING TO eliminate it, and seriously WANTING TO CHANGE for the better.
That, with Honest reflection, is about all it takes to eliminate corruption and ALL of the other Wrong that 'you', adult human beings, do do.
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
There have ALWAYS been and will ALWAYS be hierarchies [and thank God for that].
So what? This is certainly NO justification AT ALL for the Wrong ANY one does in the hierarchy.
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
There are people who do things a great deal better than others. That's why it's the captain who flies the plane.
So what? Does this then give that one the right to be corrupt?
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:46 pmWhile the economic and political models of monarchism and feudalism gave way to a more decentralized model of power with the inception of free market capitalism, history inadvertently replaced an old despotic mode of tyranny with another more subtle one. The royal family of tyrants who ruled the peasants and serfs as slaves to the land, became the capitalist parasites that ruled the modern working class as slaves to the wage. Different economic model, same bullshit.
Well, everything you enjoy today has been brought to you by all that bullshit.
But, just as OBVIOUS is the Fact that EVERY thing you enjoy today could have been brought to you WITHOUT corruption, greed, NOR selfishness.
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
Yes, history suggests that systems get better [on the whole], but you will always have a pecking order.
ONLY IF 'you' continue to make a so-called "pecking order".
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
And why shouldn't there be. People who are willing to do more should receive more.
LOL ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of just how these ones would 'try' just about ANY thing to "justify" or "rationalize" their Wrong, greedy, and selfish behaviors and ways.
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
Otherwise, why do it?
BECAUSE one wants to HELP OUT in their community, for the benefit of ALL, which is ultimately "ourself", by the way.
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
If you have been paying attention as you matured, you should have taken notice of how people seems to operate in groups [most (given their way) want to sit around and do nothing].
Is this REALLY what they WANT TO DO?
Is it NOT possible that they just do NOT want to do what ultimately just causes MORE GREED and SELFISHNESS to breed, which OBVIOUSLY means "others" MISS OUT on MORE or AGAIN?
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:46 pmAs long as capitalism remains, governments that rule in countries that practice capitalism, will become corrupt in ways that can't be interfered with by the working classes who are ruled by that government. The solution is to make the working classes the government itself. I mean goddamn it can't be made any simpler than that, folks.
Great idea. Then we can all live happily ever after. You want the best people doing what they do best. That's pretty simple.
There is NO such thing as "best people". There is, however, and IN FACT, just 'people',
simplicity wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:46 pmBut again this wisdom belongs to the proletariat, not the bourgeoisie. This is not a solution or change in government that the bourgeoisie would want, since clearly it would jeopardize their privilege of living for free as parasites on the back of the working classes.
You need to change your calendar from 1850 to 2021.
Look out the window, most people are complete morons [you believe in a social theory that only six other people still believed in after the fall of the USSR]. You want people like yourself deciding the future?