The Disinformation Age
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The Disinformation Age
There seems to be a lot of misinformation going around on the Internet these days. From the Qanon weirdness to a tweet from a doctor that was reproduced making it appear that the CDC was producing misinformation about the Covid pandemic. How is this happening? Why is misinformation becoming such an issue now? Could it be from foreign countries trying to destabilize the developed world or has social media truly become a curse on the dissemination of information? Or both?
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-528961447371
https://theweek.com/coronavirus/1003095 ... ation-meme
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-528961447371
https://theweek.com/coronavirus/1003095 ... ation-meme
- Immanuel Can
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Re: The Disinformation Age
We know it was.
When you have a series of pronouncements that actually contradict one another, you can't know what the truth is -- except that whoever is speaking, they are lying or confused, because they can't keep their story straight.
The CDC didn't get it right the first time...or the second...or the third. Do they have it right now? Who knows? But we know beyond any shadow of doubt that they were "producing misinformation," and did so several times.
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Re: The Disinformation Age
Are you referring to when the CDC said masks would not help any? Yes. We know that was a lie but they were saying it to discourage people from buying them up so that they would be available for hospital staff who needed them more. Of course, people started hoarding them anyway. One of the unfortunate side effects of a free market. So rather than impose draconian measures, they told people a lie to get them to behave themselves. Yes. It probably would have been best to tell the truth and tell people that they ought to save them for those who need them most. But I don't think it was a diabolical plot by the CDC to control people for nefarious reasons. I think they were faced with a crisis they weren't prepared for and did what they thought was best.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:44 pmWe know it was.
When you have a series of pronouncements that actually contradict one another, you can't know what the truth is -- except that whoever is speaking, they are lying or confused, because they can't keep their story straight.
The CDC didn't get it right the first time...or the second...or the third. Do they have it right now? Who knows? But we know beyond any shadow of doubt that they were "producing misinformation," and did so several times.
- Immanuel Can
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Re: The Disinformation Age
Let's start with that. Let's pretend that's all there is (though, of course, there's certainly not: they've repeatedly flip-flopped on numerous issues.)Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:42 pmAre you referring to when the CDC said masks would not help any? Yes. We know that was a lie but they were saying it to discourage people from buying them up so that they would be available for hospital staff who needed them more.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:44 pmWe know it was.
When you have a series of pronouncements that actually contradict one another, you can't know what the truth is -- except that whoever is speaking, they are lying or confused, because they can't keep their story straight.
The CDC didn't get it right the first time...or the second...or the third. Do they have it right now? Who knows? But we know beyond any shadow of doubt that they were "producing misinformation," and did so several times.
They were lying. It doesn't change anything if we think they "meant well." They didn't tell people the truth; they told them a flat lie. And when an agency does that, they needn't whine later if people ask, "How do we know you're not doing it again?"
It would have been right and moral. But they didn't do the right thing.It probably would have been best to tell the truth
Don't excuse liars, Gary. They lied. They now admit they lied. If they're having credibility problems, it's their own fault.
Re: The Disinformation Age
Therein lies Brandolini's law!
The easiest/cheapest way to disinform is to stip words from their context and then re-contextualise them with your personal agenda.
It suffices to say that Immanuel Can (through continuous deception and disinfirmation tactics) actually serves the Devil. I am a better Christian than he is.Brandolini's law, also known as the bullshit asymmetry principle, is an internet adage that emphasizes the difficulty of debunking false, facetious, or otherwise misleading information: "The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it."
He is actively fighting to protect he status quo and the narrative. Irrespective the cost of human lives.
If I wanted a narrative that never changes (even in the face of new information) I'd invent a religion; or a Philosophy.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:44 pm When you have a series of pronouncements that actually contradict one another, you can't know what the truth is -- except that whoever is speaking, they are lying or confused, because they can't keep their story straight.
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Re: The Disinformation Age
OK. So now what do we do? Do we just ignore everything the CDC says, potentially compounding problems with the virus? I mean, I agree that it was stupid to lie and, yes, arguably immoral. But we should probably start trusting them at some point for reasons of public safety. Are they confused? Probably. This is the first major pandemic we've encountered since the Spanish Flu, and there are a lot of unknowns out there.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:48 pmLet's start with that. Let's pretend that's all there is (though, of course, there's certainly not: they've repeatedly flip-flopped on numerous issues.)Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:42 pmAre you referring to when the CDC said masks would not help any? Yes. We know that was a lie but they were saying it to discourage people from buying them up so that they would be available for hospital staff who needed them more.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:44 pm
We know it was.
When you have a series of pronouncements that actually contradict one another, you can't know what the truth is -- except that whoever is speaking, they are lying or confused, because they can't keep their story straight.
The CDC didn't get it right the first time...or the second...or the third. Do they have it right now? Who knows? But we know beyond any shadow of doubt that they were "producing misinformation," and did so several times.
They were lying. It doesn't change anything if we think they "meant well." They didn't tell people the truth; they told them a flat lie. And when an agency does that, they needn't whine later if people ask, "How do we know you're not doing it again?"
It would have been right and moral. But they didn't do the right thing.It probably would have been best to tell the truth
Don't excuse liars, Gary. They lied. They now admit they lied. If they're having credibility problems, it's their own fault.
- Immanuel Can
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Re: The Disinformation Age
They've put us in that position. We don't know if what they are telling us is the truth, or is another lie.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:55 pm OK. So now what do we do? Do we just ignore everything the CDC says, potentially compounding problems with the virus?
Since they lie, we have to trust something else: in this case, what we hear, but combined with our own critical faculties. We have to consider what they are telling us at the moment, but know that they also lie. I would suggest we pay more attention to physicans and infectious disease specialists who are less tied to political favours; we have less reason to suppose them willing to lie to us. They might have the expertise, but they have less powerful motivations to misrepresent what they know.
In any case, the CDC lies. We know that.
Plausibly. But if true, that's not an excuse: that's another point for why we ought not to trust them. They lie, AND they don't always know what they're talking about, but they still want to talk as if they do?Are they confused? Probably.
Sheesh...that's a bad information source, for sure.
You started with a concerrn about "disinformation," Gary. Where did that go, when the CDC got mentioned? Did we forget it?
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Re: The Disinformation Age
When I think of "disinformation" I think of deliberate lies done for nefarious purposes. I think most of the errors the CDC is guilty of (except of course the initial claim that PPE was useless--done ostensibly with good intentions) are probably more along the lines of confusion and therefore perhaps more like "misinformation" more so than "disinformation." I just wonder if there aren't propaganda campaigns out there to topple the West or something.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:22 pmThey've put us in that position. We don't know if what they are telling us is the truth, or is another lie.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:55 pm OK. So now what do we do? Do we just ignore everything the CDC says, potentially compounding problems with the virus?
Since they lie, we have to trust something else: in this case, what we hear, but combined with our own critical faculties. We have to consider what they are telling us at the moment, but know that they also lie. I would suggest we pay more attention to physicans and infectious disease specialists who are less tied to political favours; we have less reason to suppose them willing to lie to us. They might have the expertise, but they have less powerful motivations to misrepresent what they know.
In any case, the CDC lies. We know that.
Plausibly. But if true, that's not an excuse: that's another point for why we ought not to trust them. They lie, AND they don't always know what they're talking about, but they still want to talk as if they do?Are they confused? Probably.
Sheesh...that's a bad information source, for sure.
You started with a concerrn about "disinformation," Gary. Where did that go, when the CDC got mentioned? Did we forget it?
- Immanuel Can
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Re: The Disinformation Age
Oh, very likely.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:53 pmWhen I think of "disinformation" I think of deliberate lies done for nefarious purposes. I think most of the errors the CDC is guilty of (except of course the initial claim that PPE was useless--done ostensibly with good intentions) are probably more along the lines of confusion and therefore perhaps more like "misinformation" more so than "disinformation." I just wonder if there aren't propaganda campaigns out there to topple the West or something.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:22 pm You started with a concerrn about "disinformation," Gary. Where did that go, when the CDC got mentioned? Did we forget it?
But does it really matter what motives the people who provide mis/disinformation have? A lie is a lie, and we react to it by being misled, regardless of why it was launched in the first place.
Maybe it matters in the question of how severely we judge the liars once we catch them -- assuming we do. But it matters not at all in the question of whether the information is good or bad. It's bad either way, and equally so.
Re: The Disinformation Age
Disinformation is a tactic of war. With whom are disinformers at war?Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:33 pm There seems to be a lot of misinformation going around on the Internet these days.
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Re: The Disinformation Age
Apparently us.Walker wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:02 amDisinformation is a tactic of war. With whom are disinformers at war?Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:33 pm There seems to be a lot of misinformation going around on the Internet these days.
Re: The Disinformation Age
I’d say that the disinformationalists are at war with whomever* does not buy into their narrative, for the disinformation invariably follows a narrative that defines what it is that comprises news and then slants the view of events into that narrative, as opposed to balanced reporting. For example, a persistent narrative in the US is now, not by accident, racism. Event reporting and selection of what defines news, now first flows through that racism narrative to define the cause of events.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:05 pmApparently us.Walker wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:02 amDisinformation is a tactic of war. With whom are disinformers at war?Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:33 pm There seems to be a lot of misinformation going around on the Internet these days.
Once you’ve been targeted as an enemy of the disinformation narrative, the next step is to discredit and demonize you, which of course is more disinformation.
* Is it whomever, or whoever?
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Re: The Disinformation Age
I, for one, do not excuse them for lying.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:48 pmLet's start with that. Let's pretend that's all there is (though, of course, there's certainly not: they've repeatedly flip-flopped on numerous issues.)Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:42 pmAre you referring to when the CDC said masks would not help any? Yes. We know that was a lie but they were saying it to discourage people from buying them up so that they would be available for hospital staff who needed them more.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:44 pm
We know it was.
When you have a series of pronouncements that actually contradict one another, you can't know what the truth is -- except that whoever is speaking, they are lying or confused, because they can't keep their story straight.
The CDC didn't get it right the first time...or the second...or the third. Do they have it right now? Who knows? But we know beyond any shadow of doubt that they were "producing misinformation," and did so several times.
They were lying. It doesn't change anything if we think they "meant well." They didn't tell people the truth; they told them a flat lie. And when an agency does that, they needn't whine later if people ask, "How do we know you're not doing it again?"
It would have been right and moral. But they didn't do the right thing.It probably would have been best to tell the truth
Don't excuse liars, Gary. They lied. They now admit they lied. If they're having credibility problems, it's their own fault.
I don’t find lying, from any source, alarming.
I am an adult; ergo I’ve been lied to many times.
Re: The Disinformation Age
don't listen to what some one says some one says, go to the source. get on the CDC site see what they say.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:33 pm There seems to be a lot of misinformation going around on the Internet these days. From the Qanon weirdness to a tweet from a doctor that was reproduced making it appear that the CDC was producing misinformation about the Covid pandemic. How is this happening? Why is misinformation becoming such an issue now? Could it be from foreign countries trying to destabilize the developed world or has social media truly become a curse on the dissemination of information? Or both?
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-528961447371
https://theweek.com/coronavirus/1003095 ... ation-meme
also i do believe CDC is a gov agency and yes there would be significant politics involved, that is influenced by special interests.
sucks to be cattle, eh.
Re: The Disinformation Age
What good is reading from the source when one can't even understand what the words mean?DPMartin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:26 pm don't listen to what some one says some one says, go to the source. get on the CDC site see what they say.
also i do believe CDC is a gov agency and yes there would be significant politics involved, that is influenced by special interests.
sucks to be cattle, eh.
For example, the CDC recently announced that they will be retiring the RT-PCR test because (and I am quoting exactly the CDC report):
Did the CDC say this? Yes! Of course they said this!In preparation for this change, CDC recommends clinical laboratories and testing sites that have been using the CDC 2019-nCoV RT-PCR assay select and begin their transition to another FDA-authorized COVID-19 test. CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses.
But did the CDC actually mean that the current test conflates SARS-CoV-2 and influenza? NO. The CDC didn't mean this because it's not true!
But everybody "heard" the CDC say something the CDC didn't actually say! And disinformation was born.