White v Black

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

mickthinks
Posts: 1495
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Augsburg

Re: White v Black

Post by mickthinks »

... there's not a good reason to believe that racism is as common as people claim ...

I believe there are a number of weaknesses in that claim, TS. One is the idea that racism can be quantified in any way that could be described as "common" or "rare". Racism is not just a matter of racist beliefs or expressions or acts of racists.

Also, while some people may have made unreasonable claims, others have made perfectly reasonable claims. You appear to be trying to dismiss all claims about racism in America and elsewhere on the grounds that some may have been unreasonable.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12242
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: White v Black

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:52 pm It's not that there are no racists. It's that there's not a good reason to believe that racism is as common as people claim lately, and a lot of stuff that's attributed to racism is misattributed to that. The reasoning errors that lead to this are just the same as the reasoning errors that lead to racism in the first place. That sort of poor reasoning is the problem that we ultimately need to tackle.
The problem is those within the CRTists claimed that racism is inherent in ALL whites [note "ALL" without exceptions], especially the power structures of whites that works against the blacks.
Then the CRTists invent their definition of what is white, the category white, and who qualify to be white [pejoratively].. apparently the evidently successful Asians [black Indians and yellow Chinese, Koreans, Japanese] are considered 'white'.

Here are some Key Tenets of CRT;

Key tenets of Critical Race Theory from various CRT books;
  • • racism is not an aberration, but rather an essential part of how Western societies operate;

    • racism is often invisible, perpetrated not by individuals but by a system with inbuilt biases that discriminate against people of colour (POC);

    • race is a social construct, not a biological one, and can thus be dismantled as a tool of oppression;

    • calling out instances of racism, no matter how small (microaggressions), is a key strategy in exposing and defeating it;

    • the dominant ideology of liberalism — which favours individual rights above all else — falsely positions itself as both neutral and natural when in fact it upholds a system that privileges a white elite;

    • stories of lived experience from POC are a valid and powerful tool for challenging that system;

    • race is not the only thing that determines identity. Gender, sexuality, abledness and so on all contribute (the thesis of intersectionality);

    • anti-racialism — the myth of colourblindness, which denies the legitimacy of lived experience of racism — is the enemy of anti-racism;

    • incremental change is doomed to fail because advances for minorities are only granted when they are in the interests of the dominant group (whites), and are withdrawn when they are not.

see also
CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33198
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12242
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: White v Black

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:46 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:57 am The Democratic Party the older party than the Republican was inclined to slavery and white supremacism right from the start [driven by tribalism] thus these are embedded in the party DNA. Driven by the white supremacist DNA, the KKK was founded by the followers of the Democratic Party.
Who knew? Political parties are determined by their DNA!

Political parties are the manifestation of diseased minds. Perhaps they can be cured by genetic modification.

Philosophy is so enlightening!
It is because you are ignorant of the latest advance knowledge that you resorted to the above sarcastic metaphor.

If only you are knowledgeable,
based on the current trend of advance knowledge, the most effective cure [in the future] will be some sort of genetic modification, not crude [frankensteinian] ones but only based on fool proofs holistic methods.
User avatar
Terrapin Station
Posts: 4548
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:18 pm
Location: NYC Man

Re: White v Black

Post by Terrapin Station »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:05 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:52 pm It's not that there are no racists. It's that there's not a good reason to believe that racism is as common as people claim lately, and a lot of stuff that's attributed to racism is misattributed to that. The reasoning errors that lead to this are just the same as the reasoning errors that lead to racism in the first place. That sort of poor reasoning is the problem that we ultimately need to tackle.
The problem is those within the CRTists claimed that racism is inherent in ALL whites [note "ALL" without exceptions], especially the power structures of whites that works against the blacks.
Then the CRTists invent their definition of what is white, the category white, and who qualify to be white [pejoratively].. apparently the evidently successful Asians [black Indians and yellow Chinese, Koreans, Japanese] are considered 'white'.

Here are some Key Tenets of CRT;

Key tenets of Critical Race Theory from various CRT books;
  • • racism is not an aberration, but rather an essential part of how Western societies operate;

    • racism is often invisible, perpetrated not by individuals but by a system with inbuilt biases that discriminate against people of colour (POC);

    • race is a social construct, not a biological one, and can thus be dismantled as a tool of oppression;

    • calling out instances of racism, no matter how small (microaggressions), is a key strategy in exposing and defeating it;

    • the dominant ideology of liberalism — which favours individual rights above all else — falsely positions itself as both neutral and natural when in fact it upholds a system that privileges a white elite;

    • stories of lived experience from POC are a valid and powerful tool for challenging that system;

    • race is not the only thing that determines identity. Gender, sexuality, abledness and so on all contribute (the thesis of intersectionality);

    • anti-racialism — the myth of colourblindness, which denies the legitimacy of lived experience of racism — is the enemy of anti-racism;

    • incremental change is doomed to fail because advances for minorities are only granted when they are in the interests of the dominant group (whites), and are withdrawn when they are not.

see also
CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33198
Yeah, all of that is incredibly dubious philosophically. The problem is that you can't get anyone who backs it to actually engage in a philosophical discussion about the countless assumptions being made there.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: White v Black

Post by RCSaunders »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:17 am
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:46 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:57 am The Democratic Party the older party than the Republican was inclined to slavery and white supremacism right from the start [driven by tribalism] thus these are embedded in the party DNA. Driven by the white supremacist DNA, the KKK was founded by the followers of the Democratic Party.
Who knew? Political parties are determined by their DNA!

Political parties are the manifestation of diseased minds. Perhaps they can be cured by genetic modification.

Philosophy is so enlightening!
It is because you are ignorant of the latest advance knowledge that you resorted to the above sarcastic metaphor.

If only you are knowledgeable,
based on the current trend of advance knowledge, the most effective cure [in the future] will be some sort of genetic modification, not crude [frankensteinian] ones but only based on fool proofs holistic methods.
Whatever you say, Dr. Mengele.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12242
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: White v Black

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:45 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:05 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:52 pm It's not that there are no racists. It's that there's not a good reason to believe that racism is as common as people claim lately, and a lot of stuff that's attributed to racism is misattributed to that. The reasoning errors that lead to this are just the same as the reasoning errors that lead to racism in the first place. That sort of poor reasoning is the problem that we ultimately need to tackle.
The problem is those within the CRTists claimed that racism is inherent in ALL whites [note "ALL" without exceptions], especially the power structures of whites that works against the blacks.
Then the CRTists invent their definition of what is white, the category white, and who qualify to be white [pejoratively].. apparently the evidently successful Asians [black Indians and yellow Chinese, Koreans, Japanese] are considered 'white'.

Here are some Key Tenets of CRT;

Key tenets of Critical Race Theory from various CRT books;
  • • racism is not an aberration, but rather an essential part of how Western societies operate;

    • racism is often invisible, perpetrated not by individuals but by a system with inbuilt biases that discriminate against people of colour (POC);

    • race is a social construct, not a biological one, and can thus be dismantled as a tool of oppression;

    • calling out instances of racism, no matter how small (microaggressions), is a key strategy in exposing and defeating it;

    • the dominant ideology of liberalism — which favours individual rights above all else — falsely positions itself as both neutral and natural when in fact it upholds a system that privileges a white elite;

    • stories of lived experience from POC are a valid and powerful tool for challenging that system;

    • race is not the only thing that determines identity. Gender, sexuality, abledness and so on all contribute (the thesis of intersectionality);

    • anti-racialism — the myth of colourblindness, which denies the legitimacy of lived experience of racism — is the enemy of anti-racism;

    • incremental change is doomed to fail because advances for minorities are only granted when they are in the interests of the dominant group (whites), and are withdrawn when they are not.

see also
CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33198
Yeah, all of that is incredibly dubious philosophically. The problem is that you can't get anyone who backs it to actually engage in a philosophical discussion about the countless assumptions being made there.
Why it that so?

It is because CRT take it that reasoning is a 'white' supremacist thing to dominate the blacks.
Thus when you try to rationalize with the CRTists, it is deemed you are trying to win to dominate and suppress them with reasons [which they are not capable of and their beliefs inherently flawed].

This is what is happening with my recent discussion with Uwot;
viewtopic.php?p=516904#p516904
Uwot just refused to rationalize and reason with his dogmatic thinking.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12242
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: White v Black

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:16 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:17 am
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:46 am
Who knew? Political parties are determined by their DNA!

Political parties are the manifestation of diseased minds. Perhaps they can be cured by genetic modification.

Philosophy is so enlightening!
It is because you are ignorant of the latest advance knowledge that you resorted to the above sarcastic metaphor.

If only you are knowledgeable,
based on the current trend of advance knowledge, the most effective cure [in the future] will be some sort of genetic modification, not crude [frankensteinian] ones but only based on fool proofs holistic methods.
Whatever you say, Dr. Mengele.
That is the typical primal 'fight or flight' response from the ignorant.

Humans had been genetically modified from since humans first emerged albeit very gradually. What I proposed is to do it a bit faster but with assurance it is foolproof.
Gary Childress
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: White v Black

Post by Gary Childress »

mickthinks wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:25 pm No matter how much the Right wants to pretend that race and racism is just a hoax invented by people of colour to make the Right look bad, while there are white people like Nathan Allen, "White" and "Non-White" are an undeniable social reality.

US 'white supremacist' shoots two black bystanders| BBC

Image
I don't think the right thinks racism is a hoax to the extent that there are no racists out there. I think the right is more along the lines of denying that racism is rampant or even systematic in American society. I mean, I'm not a black person so I couldn't say one way or the other but I've listened to people on the right talk and that's not what they say, and the single example you give doesn't necessarily mean that it's rampant.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: White v Black

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Only a complete fuckwit says 'people of colour'. Just saying.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: White v Black

Post by RCSaunders »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:57 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:16 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:17 am
It is because you are ignorant of the latest advance knowledge that you resorted to the above sarcastic metaphor.

If only you are knowledgeable,
based on the current trend of advance knowledge, the most effective cure [in the future] will be some sort of genetic modification, not crude [frankensteinian] ones but only based on fool proofs holistic methods.
Whatever you say, Dr. Mengele.
That is the typical primal 'fight or flight' response from the ignorant.

Humans had been genetically modified from since humans first emerged albeit very gradually. What I proposed is to do it a bit faster but with assurance it is foolproof.
It's to bad you have such a hatred for reality and humanity that you want to change them into something you would like them to be. I don't want to disappoint you, but neither is yours to change, and whatever you do to promote your human-hating policies can only cause harm.

The worst horrors in history have been perpetrated by those who meant to save the world, like you. You may mean well, but the road to hell is still paved with good intentions.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12242
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: White v Black

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:06 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:57 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:16 pm
Whatever you say, Dr. Mengele.
That is the typical primal 'fight or flight' response from the ignorant.

Humans had been genetically modified from since humans first emerged albeit very gradually. What I proposed is to do it a bit faster but with assurance it is foolproof.
It's to bad you have such a hatred for reality and humanity that you want to change them into something you would like them to be. I don't want to disappoint you, but neither is yours to change, and whatever you do to promote your human-hating policies can only cause harm.

The worst horrors in history have been perpetrated by those who meant to save the world, like you. You may mean well, but the road to hell is still paved with good intentions.
You post like the typical ignoramus.

As I had stated humans had been genetically modified through its various phases of evolution.

Whatever I proposed must be fool proof and accepted voluntarily like we are doing with the current Covid19 vaccination program.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: White v Black

Post by RCSaunders »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:41 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:06 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:57 am
That is the typical primal 'fight or flight' response from the ignorant.

Humans had been genetically modified from since humans first emerged albeit very gradually. What I proposed is to do it a bit faster but with assurance it is foolproof.
It's to bad you have such a hatred for reality and humanity that you want to change them into something you would like them to be. I don't want to disappoint you, but neither is yours to change, and whatever you do to promote your human-hating policies can only cause harm.

The worst horrors in history have been perpetrated by those who meant to save the world, like you. You may mean well, but the road to hell is still paved with good intentions.
You post like the typical ignoramus.
It is better to remain ignorant than to fill the gaps in one's knowledge with lies and nonsense.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:41 am As I had stated humans had been genetically modified through its various phases of evolution.

Whatever I proposed must be fool proof and accepted voluntarily like we are doing with the current Covid19 vaccination program.
"The costliest of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind" --H.L. Mencken

I prefer to remain ignorant of such lies and nonsense that you swallow whole, like evolution as a science (it's only a very sketchy hypothesis) and anything the government tells you. No government program is voluntary because people are forced to finance them at the point of a gun--the theft called taxes.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12242
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: White v Black

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:35 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:41 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:06 pm
It's to bad you have such a hatred for reality and humanity that you want to change them into something you would like them to be. I don't want to disappoint you, but neither is yours to change, and whatever you do to promote your human-hating policies can only cause harm.

The worst horrors in history have been perpetrated by those who meant to save the world, like you. You may mean well, but the road to hell is still paved with good intentions.
You post like the typical ignoramus.
It is better to remain ignorant than to fill the gaps in one's knowledge with lies and nonsense.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:41 am As I had stated humans had been genetically modified through its various phases of evolution.

Whatever I proposed must be fool proof and accepted voluntarily like we are doing with the current Covid19 vaccination program.
"The costliest of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind" --H.L. Mencken

I prefer to remain ignorant of such lies and nonsense that you swallow whole, like evolution as a science (it's only a very sketchy hypothesis) and anything the government tells you. No government program is voluntary because people are forced to finance them at the point of a gun--the theft called taxes.
How can you be so ignorant?
At present, vaccination for the Covid19 is free in the USA and all over the world.
At present no one is forcing you to be vaccinated.

Don't deflect to taxes, that is a different issue?
If you don't want to pay taxes, you can migrate to a country that don't have taxes or escape to someway off normal civilization, if not, just commit suicide.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: White v Black

Post by RCSaunders »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:43 am
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:35 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:41 am
You post like the typical ignoramus.
It is better to remain ignorant than to fill the gaps in one's knowledge with lies and nonsense.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:41 am As I had stated humans had been genetically modified through its various phases of evolution.

Whatever I proposed must be fool proof and accepted voluntarily like we are doing with the current Covid19 vaccination program.
"The costliest of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind" --H.L. Mencken

I prefer to remain ignorant of such lies and nonsense that you swallow whole, like evolution as a science (it's only a very sketchy hypothesis) and anything the government tells you. No government program is voluntary because people are forced to finance them at the point of a gun--the theft called taxes.
How can you be so ignorant?
At present, vaccination for the Covid19 is free in the USA and all over the world.
At present no one is forcing you to be vaccinated.

Don't deflect to taxes, that is a different issue?
If you don't want to pay taxes, you can migrate to a country that don't have taxes or escape to someway off normal civilization, if not, just commit suicide.
How about you and all the other moochers who want to take the producer's money to finance your programs to save the world or mankind move to another country to see how long yiou get along without stealing other people's wealth.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12242
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: White v Black

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:01 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:43 am
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:35 am
It is better to remain ignorant than to fill the gaps in one's knowledge with lies and nonsense.

"The costliest of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind" --H.L. Mencken

I prefer to remain ignorant of such lies and nonsense that you swallow whole, like evolution as a science (it's only a very sketchy hypothesis) and anything the government tells you. No government program is voluntary because people are forced to finance them at the point of a gun--the theft called taxes.
How can you be so ignorant?
At present, vaccination for the Covid19 is free in the USA and all over the world.
At present no one is forcing you to be vaccinated.

Don't deflect to taxes, that is a different issue?
If you don't want to pay taxes, you can migrate to a country that don't have taxes or escape to someway off normal civilization, if not, just commit suicide.
How about you and all the other moochers who want to take the producer's money to finance your programs to save the world or mankind move to another country to see how long yiou get along without stealing other people's wealth.
You are babbling nonsense.

Whatever and whichever ways humans are driven on a path of improvements, there is an elements of genetic modifications in the most subtlest manner and it become significant after many years.

For example the majority at present accept slavery is evil.
As such, this present majority is a genetical modified version of the majority of humans 100,000 or even 10,000 years ago with reference to the slavery impulse.

There is so much advance knowledge at present [e.g. in neurosciences, genomics, connectome, etc.] that we can leveraged on [in the next few generations] to expedite progress in solving the problem of racism.
You are ignorant of all these advance knowledge and you are too old to grasp and understand their values.

Suggest you keep peace with whatever knowledge you have, rather than condemn those who want good for the future of humanity.
Post Reply