That's an interesting statistic, RC. Does it only refer to people in the New England area? I wonder what the literacy rate was for other regions, especially more remote ones? I imagine church was a strong factor in teaching kids back then. I suppose most people belonged to a church and if they didn't they were probably largely ostracized by the community. I wonder what the literacy rate would have been had many children not gone to Sunday school?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:01 pmThis is from one of my articles on education, "Pedagogy—Professional Mind Destroyers," if you are interested in the sources for the statistics.The literacy rate in 1776 was, "80% of men and 50% of women in New England. "In 1800 ... only four in a thousand Americans were unable to read and write legibly." Before 1840, "the literacy rate in Massachusetts was 98 percent, and in neighboring Connecticut, 99.8 percent."
The product of compulsory education since 1852 in America today is a population that is, "4% nonliterate, 14% below basic literacy levels, and 34% with only 'basic' literacy" (meaning they can barely manage to read and write). "1 out of every 6 adults in the U.S. lack basic reading skills—that means 36 million people can't read a job application, understand basic written instructions, or read the Internet."
The point of these statistics is not to point out the failure of public education, which is already obvious, but to emphasize the fact, education does not require any kind of state or society to provide it. Before there was any such system in the United States, most Americans were fully capable of educating themselves.
That's my view. We're just not going to agree on this.
CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
You are not going to win an argument with lies.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:01 pmI don't expect you to agree with my comments which were not a statement of fact but my view that government should have nothing to do with education.Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:53 amThat is very nice of you to say so.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:49 am
Yes, we all have to live with our shortcomings. I'll manage without your pity, or your government, thank you very much. I'm happy to be a free autodidact and polymath (since, in my ignorance, I do not regard anything else as erudition).
[Truth is, I'm always disappointed when we disagree, Sculptor. I really think you have a first rate mind.]
Are you trying to imply that you never went to school?
Let's say that is the case.
Now let me ask you want do you think the western world would be like if governments had nothing to do with education?
Perhaps you would like to consdier examples of countries where governments do not provide for the education of their people?
GIven your survey of such countries are you now willing to accept that your comments are wrong?
Your test means nothing. It is not possible to compare what education without government to education by government in the modern world, since government have used force to take over all education.
This is simply not the case.
Private education has always existed along side the publicly provided.
Before public provision edication was the reverve of the super rich, who could afford to send their children to school. The poor were forced to send their children out to work.
I cannot beleive you are so ignorant of the basic facts of history
You have to understand that thse are matters of fact, and you do not get to make up your own facts.
Yes wide spread ignorance and illiteracy.What can be compared is education before government took over with education after they took over, at least in the United States.
went to your dodgy looking website, and followed their first LINK. It did not support the claims they took from it, but led to an article saying how much literacy rates had increased since 1776.Please cite!The literacy rate in 1776 was, "80% of men and 50% of women in New England. "In 1800 ... only four in a thousand Americans were unable to read and write legibly." Before 1840, "the literacy rate in Massachusetts was 98 percent, and in neighboring Connecticut, 99.8 percent."
Iliteracy in the UK was 40%/60% M/F in 1800. With very few getting anything like a broad education. Literacy where present was basic for the majority.Cherry picking, not comparing like for like.
The product of compulsory education since 1852 in America today is a population that is, "4% nonliterate, 14% below basic literacy levels, and 34% with only 'basic' literacy" (meaning they can barely manage to read and write). "1 out of every 6 adults in the U.S. lack basic reading skills—that means 36 million people can't read a job application, understand basic written instructions, or read the Internet."This is from one of my articles on education, "Pedagogy—Professional Mind Destroyers," if you are interested in the sources for the statistics.
The point of these statistics is not to point out the failure of public education, which is already obvious, but to emphasize the fact, education does not require any kind of state or society to provide it. Before there was any such system in the United States, most Americans were fully capable of educating themselves.
That's my view. We're just not going to agree on this.
I really think that your lack of a formal education shows pretty badly.
Consider this statement "the literacy rate in Massachusetts was 98 percent,". This is so painfully and obviously wrong.
You have to know where and from whom those figures come.
I am sure that any school would proudly claim those figures since they are the best anywhere on earth and at any time on earth, Sadly only a tiny number of people got any eduication at all.
Use your brain.
Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
The moment when the state became more involved by funding education maps directly with the increases in literacy on the graph
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Lit ... _228553349
Key dates are:
In August 1833, Parliament voted sums of money each year for the construction of schools for poor children, the first time the state had become involved with education in England and Wales
In 1839 government grants for the construction and maintenance of schools were switched to voluntary bodies, and became conditional on a satisfactory inspection.
In 1840 the Grammar Schools Act expanded the Grammar School curriculum from classical studies to include science and literature.
The Elementary Education Act of 1870
William Forster's Elementary Education Act 1870 required partially state-funded board schools to be set up to provide elementary (primary, in modern parlance) education in areas where existing provision was inadequate. Board schools were managed by elected school boards
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Lit ... _228553349
Key dates are:
In August 1833, Parliament voted sums of money each year for the construction of schools for poor children, the first time the state had become involved with education in England and Wales
In 1839 government grants for the construction and maintenance of schools were switched to voluntary bodies, and became conditional on a satisfactory inspection.
In 1840 the Grammar Schools Act expanded the Grammar School curriculum from classical studies to include science and literature.
The Elementary Education Act of 1870
William Forster's Elementary Education Act 1870 required partially state-funded board schools to be set up to provide elementary (primary, in modern parlance) education in areas where existing provision was inadequate. Board schools were managed by elected school boards
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
Most of the learning was done in homes. Reading was taught by mothers, and practical applications (like math) were taught, "in the field," to children working with their fathers, for example. There was a very high level of intellectual development in the 1800s long before compulsory education. Most of the early industrialists did not have formal educations and men like edison had no public education.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:00 pmThat's an interesting statistic, RC. Does it only refer to people in the New England area? I wonder what the literacy rate was for other regions, especially more remote ones? I imagine church was a strong factor in teaching kids back then. I suppose most people belonged to a church and if they didn't they were probably largely ostracized by the community. I wonder what the literacy rate would have been had many children not gone to Sunday school?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:01 pmThis is from one of my articles on education, "Pedagogy—Professional Mind Destroyers," if you are interested in the sources for the statistics.The literacy rate in 1776 was, "80% of men and 50% of women in New England. "In 1800 ... only four in a thousand Americans were unable to read and write legibly." Before 1840, "the literacy rate in Massachusetts was 98 percent, and in neighboring Connecticut, 99.8 percent."
The product of compulsory education since 1852 in America today is a population that is, "4% nonliterate, 14% below basic literacy levels, and 34% with only 'basic' literacy" (meaning they can barely manage to read and write). "1 out of every 6 adults in the U.S. lack basic reading skills—that means 36 million people can't read a job application, understand basic written instructions, or read the Internet."
The point of these statistics is not to point out the failure of public education, which is already obvious, but to emphasize the fact, education does not require any kind of state or society to provide it. Before there was any such system in the United States, most Americans were fully capable of educating themselves.
That's my view. We're just not going to agree on this.
Links to the resources are in the article.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:00 pm Also, where did you get the statistic from? I'm curious about the source as well.
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
I certainly hope so. I wouldn't want to be taken for an institutionally brain-washed (i.e. university educated) individual. GBS was right:
When a man teaches something he does not know to somebody else who has no aptitude for it, and gives him a certificate of proficiency, the latter has completed the education of a gentleman [i.e. a formal education].
A fool’s brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education.
Oh yes, he also said:Every fool believes what his teachers tell him, and calls his credulity science or morality as confidently as his father called it divine revelation.
He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches.
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
I don't know. It sounds kind of Orwellian; education is ignorance? Lack of education is enlightenment? I mean, you could be right. Perhaps education in its current form is a waste of time. I mean, I studied philosophy in college but a fair amount of it was the Post-Modernism nonsense. I wish I could get a refund for those particular classes.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:35 pmI certainly hope so. I wouldn't want to be taken for an institutionally brain-washed (i.e. university educated) individual. GBS was right:
When a man teaches something he does not know to somebody else who has no aptitude for it, and gives him a certificate of proficiency, the latter has completed the education of a gentleman [i.e. a formal education].A fool’s brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education.Oh yes, he also said:Every fool believes what his teachers tell him, and calls his credulity science or morality as confidently as his father called it divine revelation.
He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches.
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
Don't take it too seriously. Shaw was a great satirist. Shaw's point was that real education is so important to mistake what one gets in a university for education is a tragedy. He's not denigrated knowledge, he's denigrating the ersatz knowledge provided by institutions of learning.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:46 pmI don't know. It sounds kind of Orwellian; education is ignorance? Lack of education is enlightenment? I mean, you could be right. Perhaps education in its current form is a waste of time. I mean, I studied philosophy in college but a fair amount of it was the Post-Modernism nonsense. I wish I could get a refund for those particular classes.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:35 pmI certainly hope so. I wouldn't want to be taken for an institutionally brain-washed (i.e. university educated) individual. GBS was right:
When a man teaches something he does not know to somebody else who has no aptitude for it, and gives him a certificate of proficiency, the latter has completed the education of a gentleman [i.e. a formal education].A fool’s brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education.Oh yes, he also said:Every fool believes what his teachers tell him, and calls his credulity science or morality as confidently as his father called it divine revelation.
He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches.
Many universities that offer courses in technology and sciences, and some that offer straight-foward exposure to good literature and history (uncorrupted by postmodern critical theory or Marxism) can be good resource for learning for those who are willing to learn and don't expect some institution to inject knowledge into their minds. Wherever one gains their knowledge, ultimately, everyone is an autodidact and must use their own mind and reason to learn and discern what is true and what isn't, because there is so much, especially today, that is promoted in universities that isn't (true).
Unfortunately, most universities are not institutions of learning but huge propaganda promoting industries for a host of ideologies which are almost entirely anti-reason, anti-intellectual, and statist, and of course they are all outrageously expensive.
If one must use an, "institution," of learning, there are a small number of private schools that actually provide some good education, but even most of those have some social/political agenda.
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
The feeble-minded engaging with the even more feeble-minded. How brave.Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:37 pmBullshit.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:36 amI have already responded to the question earlier,Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:01 am
Thank you for avoiding these simple 3 questions.
I'll ask them again.
First do you think it is a bad idea to teach these truths?
( slavery, segregation, the Ku Klux Klan and the fact that blacks are more likely to be stopped, arrested and killed by the police.)
And what makes you think that these ideas are widely taught?
Are you not aware that in some places it is banned to teach this history?
(Arkansas, Idaho, Oklahohma)
https://www.newsweek.com/critical-race- ... es-1599712
viewtopic.php?p=518041#p518041
Not avoiding but don't want to repeat.
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
Nah, you missed the context and is too hasty.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:04 pmWhy would you ask, "If you are 'white' would you want the above to be taught to your very young children?" Why would this, or any other issue of education only be of concern to people you identify as, "white?" That is racist, VA. If it were a true issue it would be an issue for all people.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:19 am If you are "white" would you want the above to be taught to your very young children?
Are you really concerned about racism and want to do something positive about it? The absolute best thing to do is to stop stirring it up, and SHUT UP!
In this contexts, the CRTists had already defined who is 'white'. [which is racist]
So in this context, would you want the above to be taught to your children?
It is the same as, Islam has already defined in the Quran who is a Muslim and non-Muslim.
Thus if one is a non-Muslim [as defined by Islam], would you, say, condemn the Quran?
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
According to the person who uses the character of 'sculptor' there are no black or white people, yet he continuously contradicts himself by talking about 'white' people. How very strange. Perhaps the medical profession should be informed, because much of its research and treatments are based around the fact that certain races are susceptible to different illnesses.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:58 amNah, you missed the context and is too hasty.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:04 pmWhy would you ask, "If you are 'white' would you want the above to be taught to your very young children?" Why would this, or any other issue of education only be of concern to people you identify as, "white?" That is racist, VA. If it were a true issue it would be an issue for all people.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:19 am If you are "white" would you want the above to be taught to your very young children?
Are you really concerned about racism and want to do something positive about it? The absolute best thing to do is to stop stirring it up, and SHUT UP!
In this contexts, the CRTists had already defined who is 'white'. [which is racist]
So in this context, would you want the above to be taught to your children?
It is the same as, Islam has already defined in the Quran who is a Muslim and non-Muslim.
Thus if one is a non-Muslim [as defined by Islam], would you, say, condemn the Quran?
Tyrannies always hate science because of its objective and critical nature, and will invariably try to hijack, twist and pervert it. Think Nazis and Stalinism to name just two. He's in 'wonderful' company
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
You make my point so well. You have no idea what edication is.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:35 pmI certainly hope so. I wouldn't want to be taken for an institutionally brain-washed (i.e. university educated) individual. GBS was right:
Those that can teachWhen a man teaches something he does not know to somebody else who has no aptitude for it, and gives him a certificate of proficiency, the latter has completed the education of a gentleman [i.e. a formal education].A fool’s brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education.Oh yes, he also said:Every fool believes what his teachers tell him, and calls his credulity science or morality as confidently as his father called it divine revelation.
He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches.
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
I'd certainly not call white people 'evil' as that has religious undertones which might considerably distort the nature of their struggle with their own identity, as well as with their perceived enemies. However, I would concede that given the character of the white race's role in world history... especially as the sole proprietors of free market theory and the mess this has created, being a white person can be very confusing and result in rather bizarre cultural behaviors.
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
"The white race"?promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:22 am ...given the character of the white race's role in world history...
So you think "white" is a "race"?
Well, I guess all racists have to have some point of agreement.
Which is the "white race" -- the English or the Scottish or the Irish? Or is it the Romanians, Albanians or Russians? Or is it the Italians, French and Greeks? Or perhaps the Danish, the Dutch the Swedes and the Belgians? Or the Austrians, Australians and Argentinians? Or all of them together? And what have all of them "done" in world history?
Please, do enlighten us. er...endarken us...er...give us some information.
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Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
'race' is just a designation for a set of phenotypes within a general species type. And words like 'nationality' and 'ethnicity' are used to describe individuals of this species who are born and/or reside at spot x on the erf. So for example, I draw an imaginary line in the dirt and say 'if you are on this side of that line, you are in [insert cool name for a country] and belong to that nationality'. Then we defend the spot on that side of the line with anything from sharpened sticks to nuclear warheads.
Re: CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil
I wonder how a blind person could judge another person by their skin colour.