Critical Race Theory

[Immanuel Can]

That's the sort of conspiracy-theory the Left just loves to traffic in. One of the hallmarks of extremist Leftism is that they always project their own motives onto others.

lol That's the sort of conspiracy-theory the Right just loves to traffic in.

So says the Left...every time.

But they really show only what is in their own hearts. For them, "race" is everything, and everything is a conspiracy.

On the Right, such as Libertarians, Randians, individualists and even classical liberals don't need to "conspire," and don't tend to do it very well when they even try They're not collectivists by nature, and only reluctantly and tentatively agree to join anything. But Leftists are total believers in Collectivism, and so naturally gravitate to that explanation of everything.

Projection again.

[uwot]

On the Right, such as Libertarians, Randians, individualists and even classical liberals don't need to "conspire," and don't tend to do it very well when they even try They're not collectivists by nature, and only reluctantly and tentatively agree to join anything.

I see you have your hysteria turned up to 11 again Mr Can. The right in the US has made a concerted effort to bind together different types of conservatives; basically religious, social and economic conservatives. Religious and social conservatives being nut jobs and misanthropes respectively couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, so it is left to the economic conservatives to tie their rabidly free market agenda to the wishes of the god botherers and confederacy nostalgics. Those hard of thinking are so well trained now that they only have to hear the words 'Pro-life', Black Lives Matter or more recently Critical Race Theory (think about it, you hadn't heard of it before Christmas) and they will be putty in the hands of their corporate masters. You can read about the origins of this collectivism here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusionism

[henry quirk]

misanthropes

yep

I'm writin' a book, Critical Human Theory.

It's gonna be very short...

You all suck, now give me money!

...no doubt Delgado, Kendi, DiAngelo, Joshi, Pluckrose and Lindsay, Felluga, etc. will accuse me of plagiarism.

[Terrapin Station]

But America is racist

That's a category error. Racism is a (set of) belief(s). Countries don't have beliefs. Individual people do.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

But America is racist and that needs to change.

That's probably your stupidest comment to date. America is a piece of rock.

[Veritas Aequitas]

It is very true there had been lots of progress with racialism throughout the world

Not really. Racism is still very much a thing in China, Russia, the Balkans, Africa, Europe, the Middle East, and you can find many, many examples of that.

Hey what is going on here??

I wrote;

• It is very true there had been lots of progress with racialism throughout the world but the problem of racialism is still serious and prevalent in many countries in the world.

You ignore the second part of my statement and attack the first part.

But you should note that your website is pretty low-grade. They don't give us the criteria used, or the raw data. They just want us to "take their word for it," that they did a credible study.

But let's suppose they did. What they, even they, purport to show, is not "the level of actual racism" in a country, but, as they put it: "The purpose of the Racial Discrimination Survey is to measure how much racism exists in a given country as perceived by its residents." In other words, not how much really exists, but how conscientious the residents are in detecting and reporting what they consider "racism." And it's probably true that the US ranks high in that, particularly since it's the place that incubated CRT.

The US might be the world's leader in self-flagellation over its past, it's true: but it's also one of the least racist places right now. You can tell, because not only do they have laws that compel opportunities to be open to all, but they actually went so far as to have "affirmative action" programs as reparations for the past. Most Americans never had, and never will have, anything to do with that past; and the irony is that nobody alive in the US today, save a few elderly Democrats, ever had anything to do with slavery or Segregation.

The US is now the number 1 choice of immigrants worldwide as a place to end up. (As they used to say in the days of the Cuban Boat Lift, "all the boats go one way.") Right now, Hondurans and other Central Americans are rushing north and flooding the southern border, so desperate to get INTO the US that they fall prey to Mexican gangs, coyotes, and sex and drug traffickers at the southern border. That fact needs explaining, if you think the US is the kind of racist, sexist, homophobic, fat hating, disablist, ageist, Islamophobic, extremist-Capitalist horror show the CRT people want you to believe it is.

You stated racism is insignificant at present, so I gave you some idea why it is not with that link. [quickie, surely there are more findings elsewhere].

My estimate is,
if long ago the state of racism was rated at 100/100, then now it would be 60/100 as a world average, with some countries above the average at say 80/100.

racialism is not easy to get rid or be modulated as compared to say slavery.

Don't you mean "racism"? Just asking.

Note:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racialism
Racialism: a belief that race (see RACE entry 1 sense 1a) determines human traits and capacities
also : RACISM

That you brought it up, I would prefer the shorter word 'racism' if I can get over the habit of using the earlier racialism.

One does not "impose" any genuinely "critical" theory. Critical thinking is independent judgment, not dogma.

Critical Race Theory emerged from 'Critical Theory' [Frankfurt & marxist] which is supposed to be part of being critical and analytic.

Their use of the word "critical" is no more than window dressing, really. It points to the fact that they are "critical" of everybody else, but there is no ideology less self-critical or tolerant of reform than Marxism. And that's proved statistically, historically obvious, even if one didn't know the rigid dogma that drives it.

However, I do. And you can, too, if you want to know the truth. They aren't shy about saying what they think. They're wordy, they're pretentious, they're self-righteous, and they're disingenuous, but they're also pretty flagrant, if you read their essays.

I wrote elsewhere.
The term 'critical' originated from Marx's reference to Kant's Critique of Pure Reason.
This was the origin of the Frankfurt School's Critical Theory. This theory was flawed from the start.
From there subsequently Derrick Bell and Kimberle Crenshaw coined Critical Race Theory which is then double flawed.

There isn't one of them that doesn't indulge in the Neo-Marxist strategies, and not one of them that is on the Right, actually. They're all insane extremes of Leftism. They're a great example of what happens when we don't believe the Left can go too far and become lunatic. I think we've always known the Right can do that: but now we're seeing where uncontrolled Leftism takes people, and it ain't pretty.

I believe [from what I've read] the majority involved with CRT would indulge in Neo-Marxist strategies but not 100%.

[Veritas Aequitas]

From what I've heard from anti-CRTists, ... they do not agree with ... ALL whites are evil people, then and now.

Yeah, " ALL whites are evil people" —that's pretty dumb!

But here's the thing ... your conservative opponents of CRT have made it up to scare you into joining them in opposing change—much needed change.


CRT has no beliefs or doctrines—it's a discourse, a methodology, an approach, a set of conceptual tools for examining society. But those who have engaged in CRT have come to agree on a couple of things:

1. America is systemically racist.
2. That needs to change

Now, not all white people are actively opposed to the second of those tenets, but many are. And anyone who is against curing America of its racism may not realise that they are part of the problem. But they most certainly are.

Yes, I can agree with you, originally,
"CRT has no beliefs or doctrines—it's a discourse, a methodology, an approach, a set of conceptual tools for examining society. "

However the inferences from the above methodology and approaches did generate very radical and extreme views related to racism.

Then there are the overzealous black activists who at present has packaged an ideology from various elements of the original CRT and then pushed such an ideology into practice. This CRT-ideology is practiced like those of cults.

So when we refer to CRT at present, it is actually ideological-CRT and not the academic-CRT.

The proposition;
"America is systemically racist."
is fallacious and it is not a truth.

And to adopt such an ideological view and put into actions is very evil indeed, i.e. it will generate evil consequences beside the minimal good it brings.

You need to review the following proposition critically to get to the truth,
"America is systemically racist."
else you are promoting a lie.
Surely you don't want to be a liar?

Philosophically, note the problem of universals and reification of universals and the noumena.

The original intent of the term was sourced from Kant by Marx and if they has used the term 'critical' as what Kant intended to, there would not be so much hoo hahs within CRT like in the present.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I don't like having moronic fuckwits telling me how to think so I will just go opposite anyway

[Veritas Aequitas]

On the Right, such as Libertarians, Randians, individualists and even classical liberals don't need to "conspire," and don't tend to do it very well when they even try They're not collectivists by nature, and only reluctantly and tentatively agree to join anything.

I see you have your hysteria turned up to 11 again Mr Can. The right in the US has made a concerted effort to bind together different types of conservatives; basically religious, social and economic conservatives. Religious and social conservatives being nut jobs and misanthropes respectively couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, so it is left to the economic conservatives to tie their rabidly free market agenda to the wishes of the god botherers and confederacy nostalgics. Those hard of thinking are so well trained now that they only have to hear the words 'Pro-life', Black Lives Matter or more recently Critical Race Theory (think about it, you hadn't heard of it before Christmas) and they will be putty in the hands of their corporate masters. You can read about the origins of this collectivism here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusionism

Generally all things [and terms] come in diversities and degrees which can be simple or very complex.

So in this case of Right or Left, they are a mixed-bag of good and evil variables.
I am not an American.
IMO, at present I believe* the Right in the US, on average promote more rational and good sense than the Left [veered more to extreme leftism] in the US. [note on average].
* ultimately this must be supported by real evidences related to all critical variables.

[uwot]

IMO, at present I believe* the Right in the US, on average promote more rational and good sense than the Left [veered more to extreme leftism] in the US. [note on average].
* ultimately this must be supported by real evidences related to all critical variables.

For the purpose of balance, would it not be appropriate to compare "the Left [veered more to extreme leftism]" with the Right [veered more to extreme rightism] than simply "the Right in the US"?

[Immanuel Can]

I wrote;

• It is very true there had been lots of progress with racialism throughout the world but the problem of racialism is still serious and prevalent in many countries in the world.

You ignore the second part of my statement and attack the first part.

You also wrote,

"The USA is 13th of 76 on the list. As I had stated, ALL humans are "programmed" with the tribalistic 'us vs them' program which is critical for survival but also came with its cons and one of the con is racialism. Because such a program is embedded in the DNA and deeply brain, racialism is not easy to get rid or be modulated as compared to say slavery."

I was disagreeing both that the study supported this view, (it doesn't) and that racism was a persistent problem in the US, anywhere near the levels you were suggesting. There are few racists left in America, so far as I can see, and nobody takes them seriously. They have no political party, no media outlets, almost no followers numerically, and one really has to dig around in the backwoods to find any at all.

Now, what you will find is no end of Leftists screaming that "white supremacy" is about to rise again and overwhelm us all, or that "systemic racism," a hidden, unfindable racism, is devouring the country. But they're creating that.

My estimate is, if long ago the state of racism was rated at 100/100, then now it would be 60/100 as a world average, with some countries above the average at say 80/100.

"World average"? That's a useless statistic. There are some places in the world that are very free and open...like the US. Then there are places that are absolute horror shows, like the Middle East, Somalia or China.

Averaging that out is useless. It tells us nothing. It suggests we should treat all such countries as "problematic," when there are clearly specific ones that are the issue. Before anybody points a finger at the US, they ought to be talking about Hong Kong, the Uighurs, the Untouchables, the plight of women in Islamic states, trans-Saharan slavery, sexual trafficking from places like the Balkans, and vicious tribalism in Africa. But the US is easy to pick on, because it has a conscience and will respond -- those other problems are real, serious and not so easy to tackle. And if there's one thing CRT people are not up for, it's any "justice" cause that involves actual work.

There's something very shallow, very spoiled, very lazy and very self-interested about a movement that will put forth effort only in developed, Western countries that provide them with abundant comfort, sympathetic governments and guaranteed public attention, and won't do one single thing for suffering a thousand times worse in the rest of the world. But that's CRT. It's not up for any tough battles.

I believe [from what I've read] the majority involved with CRT would indulge in Neo-Marxist strategies but not 100%.

You'll find that the entire ideology of CRT is Neo-Marxist. In fact, that's what its deep purpose is for: to save Marxism from justified rejection. For example, the founders of BLM all declare themselves proudly as "trained Marxists." Their followers don't all know this -- some would surely, and rightfully, be appalled at the very idea, and only think that they're joining some cause for "justice" -- but that's exactly where it's all coming from.

CRT just substitutes new allegedly "oppressed" categories, such as the fat, minorities, the disabled, females, the "trans" and practitioners of various sexual proclivities for "proletariat," but then says all the same sorts of things about them, about history, and about "justice" that the Marxists used to. It's really the same program run on new labels. And its chief proponents and advocates are proud to admit that very thing.

[uwot]

CRT just substitutes new allegedly "oppressed" categories, such as the fat, minorities, the disabled, females, the "trans" and practitioners of various sexual proclivities for "proletariat," but then says all the same sorts of things about them, about history, and about "justice" that the Marxists used to. It's really the same program run on new labels. And its chief proponents and advocates are proud to admit that very thing.

You have walked straight into it Mr Can:
"Critical race theory refers to a theory that racism is systemic in the United States (not just a collection of individuals prejudices); (Christopher) Rufo described his strategy to oppose critical race theory as intentionally using the term to conflate various left-wing race-related ideas in order to create a negative association. According to Rufo, "The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think ‘critical race theory.'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Rufo
Well, he's got you doing his bidding. Baaaa!

[FlashDangerpants]

How are your team getting on with their election stealing paedophiles and the jewish space lasers thing?

You've got the wrong "team," son. And "team" is what the Left believes we all belong to. But that's their problem.

Some book or other has a bit about "none so blind as those who will not see" and in this case that appears to be the guy who insists on some monolithic "the left" but complains about that "the left" treating "the right" as monolithic.

Anyway, you are definitely not of "the left", yet you are a conspiracy theorist who has some sort of grumble about Davos being a socialist plot, and you banged on for quite a long time about some laptop that you reckoned was why Trump (who of course you aren't partial to in any way) lost the US presidential election.

Meanwhile your alt-right buddy Walker promulgates all sorts of conspiracist fantasies including that Antifa led the Maga assault on congress in January, that Venzueala rigged the election, that global warming is a socialist conspiracy invented by the Chinese ...

And that last one is broadly the same as what Henry has to say on the matter. He also has spent a solid year posting conspiracy theories about Covid.

So where did you get this nonsense about conspiracy theorising being a hallmark of "the left" when we are constantly barraged with deranged conspiracy loons from the right?

[Immanuel Can]

the guy who insists on some monolithic "the left" but complains about that "the left" treating "the right" as monolithic.

I don't insist on it at all. I would like the Left to behave like individuals.

But Leftists are determined to see us all as a collective, as merely the products of sex, gender, culture, race, ability, age, privilege or oppression or even weight groups. In Leftist think, everybody's just a "group animal," according to their worldview. And to be "woke" is supposed to involve knowing that an "owning" it.

In Conservatism, Libertarianism and Classical Liberalism, everybody's individual. But the Left WANTS to be "monolithic." Shall we not give them what they want?

Here's the irony, though. People may hide in the collective; but conscience is individual. Morality is individual. Responsibility is individual. And in the end, Judgment is individual.

We all answer for ourselves, in the end. Our group doesn't really matter. One does not have to hide in the herd, far less follow it, and doing that won't get us off the hook individually.

Davos being a socialist plot,

Well, certainly don't take my word for it: take theirs.

You'll find it in "Covid19: The Great Reset," which is their Neo-Marxist manifesto. There's no missing it: they're proud of it.

If you read it, we can talk: I have a copy right here, right next to The Communist Manifesto, actually.

[uwot]

One does not have to hide in the herd...

Not when one lives in a flock.

Davos being a socialist plot,

Well, certainly don't take my word for it: take theirs.

You'll find it in "Covid19: The Great Reset," which is their Neo-Marxist manifesto. There's no missing it: they're proud of it.

You are a glutton for nonsense Mr Can:

"We start with the revival of the baseless conspiracy theory, known as the 'Great Reset', which claims a group of world leaders orchestrated the pandemic to take control of the global economy.
The conspiracy theory has its origins in a genuine plan entitled 'The Great Reset', drawn up by the World Economic Forum (WEF), the organisers of an annual conference for high-profile figures from politics and business. The plan explores how countries might recover from the economic damage caused by the coronavirus pandemic."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55017002