Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:14 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:50 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:15 pm
Actually, no...that doesn't follow logically at all.
Life is full of risks and perils, and eventually, everyone dies. We are not guaranteed freedom from difficulties and dangers; what we are guaranteed, by way of our births, is that we have a right to be here in the first place, that we have liberty to move and act, and that some things are legitimately under our control and disposal. Apart from those three things, moral accountability is impossible, so Locke says that's why we know God has guaranteed them to us.
No such guarantee exists for health care, or even for freedom from injury or death. In fact, one guarantee we do have is mortality. The death rate around here is 100%...everybody dies.
Ah! I see now my mistake. I had been all along tying healthcare to a right to life. Not anymore.
Hmmm...well, nobody's denying that healthcare is helpful to life...but it's not really a very good rejoinder.
After all, there are lots of things that are associated with "life" that nobody thinks of as "rights." In fact, food and water come before healthcare, for sure.
Providing food and water IS 'health care'.
If an adult did NOT provide food and water to a child, then the child becomes 'unhealthy', OBVIOUSLY.
When one rids "them self" of the ASSUMPTION that 'health care' has to involve money, then 'things' start becoming FAR MORE CLEARER.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:14 pm
But there is no proposal that says, "Human beings have an unalienable, basic human right to eat and drink other people's food and water." In fact, a person can live indefinitely, up to perhaps a hundred years or so, without healthcare, so long as illness or injury does not occur.
Maybe if you defined and/or explained what the words 'health care' actually mean and/or refers to, then what you are so desperately 'trying to' fight and argue for might be better understood.
Your BELIEFS, which you are so desperately 'trying to' argue and fight for, can ALREADY be CLEARLY SEEN and KNOWN, but NOT YET by ALL. So, how about defining what the words 'health care' means, to you?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:14 pm
And what about "education"? Is that also a "basic human right"? We all need it. Or how about "a living wage," is that another?
LOL 'you', human beings, in those days when this was written are SO DISTORTED and TWISTED. "A living wage", this is BEYOND a joke. you, people, say and believe some of the most absurd and ridiculous things.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:14 pm
What about a "right" to vote, a "right" to choose gender...and so on? We can pile up allegations of "rights" like cordwood, as many as our imaginings can devise. But can we explain why we have a right to claim them in a society that doesn't yet have them?
So the crucial thing is whether or not we have a rationale
proving the right exists, and exists
by the intrinsic nature of being human.
Barring that, it's a
social privilege, yes. It may even be "a good thing," or "something we would all wish." Nevertheless, it's quite a different thing to say it's a
basic human right. You'd need a rationale like Locke's to get it to that status.
And if 'you' NEED another human being, or thing, to follow, then 'you' REALLY do NOT YET KNOW who 'you' ARE.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:14 pm
And I don't think you can find one. For it's true that no human being has ever come into existence without a right to life, liberty and property;
LOL what 'property' do 'you', human beings, think you own, and thus have a right to?
What a joke this is. Provide examples, and let us LOOK AT them and DISCUSS.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:14 pm
but it's not true that healthcare has even existed in all times and places...far less a comprehensive, tax-funded system of Medicare, which is a very modern innovation indeed.
How can something so new ever actually be shown to be a "basic human right"?
If you know how, go ahead. I'm listening.
But 'health care' is NOT "something so new". This is just what you think and BELIEVE is true.