Basic Human Rights

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Gary Childress
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Basic Human Rights

Post by Gary Childress »

What are some basic human rights that we can all agree to?

For example, can we all agree that anyone accused of a crime should receive a fair trial?

If not, what would be some problems with the above right whereby it should not be a basic human right?

What other rights can we pretty much all agree to?

What about a right that, no one should be denied a fair means of providing basic necessities for themselves or their dependent loved ones, in order to live. Or perhaps a right to fair compensation for one's labor?

What rights do you think can be made basic to everyone?
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henry quirk
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by henry quirk »

What are some basic human rights that we can all agree to?

HA!

I can't even get folks here to agree about what seems obvious and basic (a man belongs to himself; a man's life, liberty, and property are his).
Age
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by Age »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:27 am What are some basic human rights that we can all agree to?

HA!

I can't even get folks here to agree about what seems obvious and basic (a man belongs to himself; a man's life, liberty, and property are his).
Maybe, if you included woman and children here, then you might get more agreement.

Why do you think or believe you cannot get ANY one here to agree with you?

Also, you forgot to add that what seems obvious and basic above, is 'to you'. It is not necessarily obvious and basic, to ANY or ALL "others".

Also, if you did not believe that when any man believes that some 'thing' is "theirs", no matter what it is, then they have a right to kill ANY one who touches that 'thing', then you might actually get more agreement.
Age
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:29 pm What are some basic human rights that we can all agree to?
We will have to wait and see.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:29 pm For example, can we all agree that anyone accused of a crime should receive a fair trial?
Sounds fair enough.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:29 pm If not, what would be some problems with the above right whereby it should not be a basic human right?

What other rights can we pretty much all agree to?
Do not abuse each other.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:29 pm What about a right that, no one should be denied a fair means of providing basic necessities for themselves or their dependent loved ones, in order to live. Or perhaps a right to fair compensation for one's labor?
You wrote both of these from a connatation of money. So, not all will agree.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:29 pm What rights do you think can be made basic to everyone?
The right to not be abused.
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henry quirk
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by henry quirk »

Maybe, if you included woman and children here, then you might get more agreement.

They are included: it's just cleaner to say a man belongs to himself; a man's life, liberty, and property are his.

a man, woman, or child belongs to him-or her-self; a man's, woman's, or child's life, liberty, and property are his or hers is cumbersome.


Why do you think or believe you cannot get ANY one here to agree with you?

Hell if I know.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:27 am What are some basic human rights that we can all agree to?

HA!

I can't even get folks here to agree about what seems obvious and basic (a man belongs to himself; a man's life, liberty, and property are his).
Nor is it easy to say what a "fair trial" is, these days. Does it mean one in which the accused is "presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt"? It used to mean that.

Nowadays, though, it seems to mean merely "a trial in which the person the public has been taught by the media and political manipulators to dislike is given the maximum penalty, whether he's guilty or not."
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henry quirk
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by henry quirk »

Innocent till proven guilty, yeah, another obvious notion that it seems everyone would agree with.

But, nowadays, we don't.

So, yeah, I laugh at the question...

What are some basic human rights that we can all agree to?

...cuz we can't.
commonsense
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by commonsense »

I don’t know that we can agree, but I would consider it a basic human right to have access to healthcare.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by Immanuel Can »

commonsense wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:09 pm I don’t know that we can agree, but I would consider it a basic human right to have access to healthcare.
Okay. But on what would you base that right?

For there was surely a time in human civilization when there was no reasonable degree of healthcare for anybody...so it couldn't possibly be a basic human right...because it's clearly not intrinsic to being human. Humans have often been without it, and it was not even possible for them to have it for most of human history. Even today, many countries do not even have the means to offer what you might consider a reasonable level of health care...

Consequently, we could argue that we want people to HAVE it, but it couldn't be basic, and couldn't supervene purely upon their status as human beings. It could only be a special privilege granted by those advanced polities with the means to offer it...
commonsense
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by commonsense »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:45 pm
commonsense wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:09 pm I don’t know that we can agree, but I would consider it a basic human right to have access to healthcare.
Okay. But on what would you base that right?

For there was surely a time in human civilization when there was no reasonable degree of healthcare for anybody...so it couldn't possibly be a basic human right...because it's clearly not intrinsic to being human. Humans have often been without it, and it was not even possible for them to have it for most of human history. Even today, many countries do not even have the means to offer what you might consider a reasonable level of health care...

Consequently, we could argue that we want people to HAVE it, but it couldn't be basic, and couldn't supervene purely upon their status as human beings. It could only be a special privilege granted by those advanced polities with the means to offer it...
Yes—want people to have it as a basic right for everyone, not just for the privileged, even if it is not, was not available at all times to all people.

If the OP had asked for only those rights that have been or currently are actualized, you would be right to exclude this.

Of course people can and have survived without medical or nursing care, but even if not necessary for survival, healthcare is essentially basic and ought not be denied to anyone.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by Immanuel Can »

commonsense wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:48 pm If the OP had asked for only those rights that have been or currently are actualized, you would be right to exclude this.
It's not just that. "Rights" are not "wishes." They are properties one inherently possesses, and which cannot be legitimately taken away, such as the right to life, to freedom of choice (within the bounds of respecting the choices of others, of course) and the right to own property. These things are had by the bushmen of the Kalahari just as much as they are owned by the Queen of England. They are, to borrow a word from the American constitution, "unalienable." There is no legitimate way of taking them away, and you're born with those rights.

Health care is not like that. It's a wish, or a privilege, because you're not born with it, most people don't have it, and it simply cannot always be guaranteed to you. It's' not a property of your humanity.

Thus, it's not capable of being made into a right.
Gary Childress
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by Gary Childress »

How about a right to adequate or a reasonable level of health care. Humans have always had ways of treating illness or injury. Medicine in one form or another has always been with us. Granted no one was performing open-heart surgery in prehistoric times but people treated their ailments in one way or another. As technology has progressed it seems wrong to deny someone essential medical treatment that could save their life. In that respect, it's similar to denying a member of your clan a splint for a broken leg or something. We should look out for our own to the best of our ability and not just sit back and let people die of curable health problems. Therefore, I would say that adequate medical care (according to the prevailing technology) could be made a right for a society that would like to make it so. I don't see where rights cannot be improved upon or extended where technology and circumstances allow. Perhaps it may or may not be an inalienable right but it could still be made a right to a member of a society that is capable of affording it.
tillingborn
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:35 am"Rights" are not "wishes." They are properties one inherently possesses, and which cannot be legitimately taken away, such as the right to life, to freedom of choice (within the bounds of respecting the choices of others, of course) and the right to own property.
How much property does one inherently have a right to possess?
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by Age »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:04 pm Maybe, if you included woman and children here, then you might get more agreement.

They are included: it's just cleaner to say a man belongs to himself; a man's life, liberty, and property are his.
Clearer to 'who', EXACTLY?
henry quirk wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:04 pm a man, woman, or child belongs to him-or her-self; a man's, woman's, or child's life, liberty, and property are his or hers is cumbersome.
I agree. So, why do you not just say;

"A human belongs to them self; a human's life, liberty, and property are theirs"?

And once you get agreement to that, then you can extend this truth, of yours, to an even bigger and greater truth like;

"Any life belongs to its self; every animal and plant's [everything's] life, liberty, and property are theirs."
henry quirk wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:04 pm Why do you think or believe you cannot get ANY one here to agree with you?

Hell if I know.
Have you ever considered that what you have said here, along with your other beliefs, which you have expressed clearly, are EXTREMELY CONTRADICTORY?
Age
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Re: Basic Human Rights

Post by Age »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:52 pm Innocent till proven guilty, yeah, another obvious notion that it seems everyone would agree with.

But, nowadays, we don't.

So, yeah, I laugh at the question...

What are some basic human rights that we can all agree to?

...cuz we can't.
Do you disagree with the basic human right to not be abused?
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