the righteous tyrant

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Age
Posts: 20205
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Age »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:12 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:00 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:10 pm
Well, I can help you out with that. Jesus said,

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)

The question is, on which side of that line are you wanting to be?
See? You answered the question, but didn't answer it -- I'm sure -- the way you were supposed to, so someone will proclaim you're bein' deceptive or cowardly.

What it comes down to is: Mannie won't cooperate and help me dismantle Christianity so he's bad.
Isn't that funny? I not only answered the question, but answered it with specific reference to the Founder of the entire belief system...
LOL "the founder of the ENTIRE belief-system".

Did NOT ANY one BELIEVE ANY thing, until a human being FOUNDED the ENTIRE belief-system?

Is not the 'belief-system', itself, just a part of human being 'reasoning'?

Did the 'belief-system' really NOT exist prior to about 2000 years ago?
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:12 pm and that's somehow not going to be a "good" answer? :shock: How does one "deceive" by quoting the precise words of the Founder? :shock: How is one "cowardly" by being completely direct? Would an answer I made up out of my own head be somehow more "authentic"? :shock: It's hard to see how, assuming I am capable of any less accurate representing at all.

But you may be right. Maybe it's not about getting the truth, but rather about getting what one wishes to get.

I wonder how I was "supposed to" answer the question...I must be guilty of failing to read somebody else's mind, I guess. :)
Age
Posts: 20205
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Age »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:40 pm (a) God who allows this happen

the fate to which He condemns the vast majority of human beings


Seems to me: God (Mannie's or mine) has given us, as individuals, the greatest gift imaginable: free will.
AND, the ability to learn, understand, and reason, ANY and EVERY thing.
henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:40 pm God doesn't condemn or determine, He permits.
Although God allows/permits 'you', human beings, to do and choose ABSOLUTELY ANY thing you want, God also condemns and determines. But NOT necessarily in the way that 'you, human beings, imagine and envision.
henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:40 pm He (Mannie's God) sez clearly Man, the choice is yours.
God says, 'human', the word 'man' has just hung around and remained, in the days of when this was written, because it was 'man' itself who used the word 'man' in biblical and other texts, in the past, but have remained because a lot of 'men' actually do still BELIEVE that they are stronger and thus superior to 'women', in the days when this was written.
henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:40 pm The typical nay-sayer response is Yeah, but He set up the rules of the game!


Thee ACTUAL 'rules' are YET to be FULLY understood, in the days when this was written.
henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:40 pm If I really get to choose then I should be able to choose sumthin' other than Him and not be punished for it! And understandable response based on a misunderstanding of God.
And a GREAT response and QUESTION to those who BELIEVE otherwise.
henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:40 pm God wanted a certain kind of world, with a certain kind of man.
What do 'you' mean by; "wanted", and by " with a certain kind of 'man' "?

Since when did God STOP 'wanting' some thing?

And, WHY do 'you', "men", persist with the word "men", as though God only had "men" IN SIGHT?
henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:40 pm Free will seems like it was high on His list of priorities. There bein' a free or voluntary union between man and God also seems to be high on His list of priorities. Creatin' that kind of world, with that kind of man, meant some number of men will always choose to do otherwise.
Like some, unfortunately, will CHOOSE to take the life of another human being, just because the that 'one' 'touched' some 'thing'.
henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:40 pm The consequence is akin to choosin' to walk into a burnin' buildin' (burnin' cuz you doused it in gasoline and struck the match). The fireman pretty much lays it out: if you go in there you're gonna burn up and die...why not stay out here, with me...we can talk about why you torched your place.

Sure, the fireman (God) can stop you from walkin' into the inferno. He coulda stopped you from settin' the fire in the first place. But doin' either reduces you from a free will into a pet.

He doesn't want pets...you shouldn't want to be a pet.
This is VERY True that God does NOT want 'you' to do something, which 'you', 'yourself", do NOT want to, voluntary, do.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22278
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

Age wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:05 am LOL
Sorry, Age. I'm just not interested in interacting with you.

Your "conversation style" of the moment is unproductive. In short, you're not being even remotely interesting right now.
Advocate
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Advocate »

Ugh!
tillingborn
Posts: 1314
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:15 pm

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:12 pmIsn't that funny? I not only answered the question, but answered it with specific reference to the Founder of the entire belief system...and that's somehow not going to be a "good" answer? :shock:
You only answered after it was clear we already knew the answer.
tillingborn wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:17 amEverybody knows the answer, including you. I imagine you cannot be honest because of your shame that you not only support but worship your God who allows this happen, and the fact that you care more for the feelings of a being who literally has everything, than the fate to which He condemns the vast majority of human beings.
The point is that you wouldn't admit that the God you worship throws most of humanity into the fire and that you believe people should only care about themselves because
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:44 pm what does it matter what you want to say about people in Persia or Paris or Port-au-Prince? They are not you.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22278
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:15 pm ...the God you worship throws most of humanity into the fire...
Not at all. You throw yourself.

It's your choice. Nobody has to go to a lost eternity, since the means to choose otherwise has been abundantly provided to you. But be sure of this: you will choose. There's no dodging the responsibility of your freedom. And there's no choice without its entailments.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 14706
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Right here, a little less busy.

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by henry quirk »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:37 pm
tillingborn wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:15 pm ...the God you worship throws most of humanity into the fire...
Not at all. You throw yourself.

It's your choice. Nobody has to go to a lost eternity, since the means to choose otherwise has been abundantly provided to you. But be sure of this: you will choose. There's no dodging the responsibility of your freedom. And there's no choice without its entailments.
👍
Advocate
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Advocate »

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=508795 time=1619357826 user_id=9431]
[quote=tillingborn post_id=508791 time=1619356546 user_id=7001]
...the God you worship throws most of humanity into the fire...[/quote]
Not at all. You throw yourself.

It's your choice. Nobody has to go to a lost eternity, since the means to choose otherwise has been abundantly provided to you. But be sure of this: you [i]will [/i]choose. There's no dodging the responsibility of your freedom. And there's no choice without its entailments.
[/quote]

Yes, it's a perfectly valid choice to ignore the most evolved tool the universe has ever given us, a brain, in favor of animalistic emotional comfort with no appeal to reason. You definitely deserve to be in torment forever if you don't arbitrarily choose the right fictional space-slave-daddy.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22278
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

Advocate wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:54 pm Yes, it's a perfectly valid choice to ignore the most evolved tool the universe has ever given us, a brain, in favor of animalistic emotional comfort with no appeal to reason.
You are being reasoned with. Whether or not you listen...that's on you. If you want to be "animalistic" and "emotionally comfortable," you can be. Or you can listen and think.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6604
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Lacewing »

Age wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:34 am...
Sorry, Age, your method of communicating does not inspire any interest to compel me to respond. Good luck to you.
Advocate
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Lacewing post_id=508819 time=1619368080 user_id=11228]
[quote=Age post_id=508748 time=1619318061 user_id=16237]...[/quote]
Sorry, Age, your method of communicating does not inspire any interest to compel me to respond. Good luck to you.
[/quote]

That's what the foe option is for, to clear your screen space.
tillingborn
Posts: 1314
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:15 pm

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:37 pm
tillingborn wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:15 pm ...the God you worship throws most of humanity into the fire...
Not at all. You throw yourself.

It's your choice. Nobody has to go to a lost eternity, since the means to choose otherwise has been abundantly provided to you. But be sure of this: you will choose. There's no dodging the responsibility of your freedom. And there's no choice without its entailments.
What percentage of human beings since the creation have even heard of Jesus Christ? What choice do they make? Or should I just adopt your attitude?
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:44 pm what does it matter what you want to say about people in Persia or Paris or Port-au-Prince? They are not you.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22278
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:34 pmWhat percentage of human beings since the creation have even heard of Jesus Christ?
Your concern is the percentage of people you don't know who may or may not know God?

Well, Abel, Noah, Abraham, Elijah, Isaiah...and many, many more are recorded in the OT who were saved without hearing that name specifically. So that's no problem...people are saved by trusting in the provision of God, whether they know the exact name of that provision or not. In the same way, God can save people in New Guinea or Eritrea today.

This is, however, no matter of relevance to you...since you are not them. Nor, obviously, do you know any of them in specific, nor their circumstances, nor what they knew about God, nor do you know what dealings God has had with them.

Here's what you do know: God has spoken to you. You have decided to listen, or not. And on that decision your soul -- not theirs, and certainly not any speculative others you may imagine -- your soul rests.

Each of us has to prepare his/her own answer. Let them prepare theirs. You prepare yours.


"For it is written:
'As I live, says the Lord, to Me every knee will bow,
And every tongue will confess to God.'
So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God."
(Romans 14:11-12)
Advocate
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Advocate »

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=508880 time=1619441598 user_id=9431]
[said things about god
[/quote]

Theology is Not philosophy. Please stop.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22278
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

Advocate wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:59 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:53 pm [said things about god
Theology is Not philosophy. Please stop.
Ontology is the first of all philosophies, and whether or not God exists is an ontological issue. Whether or not we can know Him is an epistemological one. What design He has put into the universe is an ethical one. And so on. There could actually be no study that is so tightly linked to the whole history of philosophy at is theology.

And no.
Post Reply