the righteous tyrant

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Advocate
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Re: the righteous tyrant

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[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=507767 time=1618607822 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=507766 time=1618607101 user_id=15238]
Only one thing is possible, and that's whatever actually happens.[/quote]
That means you're a Determinist.
[/quote]

We exist in the ignorance gap between chaos and causality.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

Advocate wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:35 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:17 pm
Advocate wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:05 pm Only one thing is possible, and that's whatever actually happens.
That means you're a Determinist.
We exist in the ignorance gap between chaos and causality.
Apparently not, according to you. You say you know that "only one thing is possible," and "that's what actually happens." So you, alone of all people, have the answer, you say.
Age
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:42 pm
Age wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:15 am I KNOW who 'I' am.
Who or what is that?
That is God, or in other words;

Who 'I' am is thee, invisible, Mind. And,

What 'I' am is thee, visible, Universe.

Which is NOT to be mistaken with who nor what 'i' am. This is a TOTALLY different 'thing'.
tillingborn
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Re: the righteous tyrant

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Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:36 pmBut Jesus Himself asked, "What shall it profit a man if he should gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"(Mark 8:36)

Great question. It is possible for you to choose whatever you think are your own temporal interests, and with that choice, lose your soul. So says Jesus Christ.
According to Mark; probably not his real name. Anyone who believes the Bible is an historical document picks the parts of the Bible that they happen to agree with and ignores anything they find difficult. You are no exception. Here's something you ignored:
tillingborn wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:01 pmYou will no doubt be aware that when Jesus did his "Let he who is without sin" thing, he didn't see fit to cast one himself. My own view is that anyone worthy of praise would have been more concerned for the welfare of the woman, rather than the souls of the lunatics who thought stoning to death is an appropriate punishment for adultery.
Any sane person in that situation would say what the fuck are you doing stoning a woman to death for adultery? Instead, your beloved Jesus says hey guys, leave the punishment to me; I've got something far more terrible to dish out. And you approve.
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Re: the righteous tyrant

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[quote=tillingborn post_id=507813 time=1618653112 user_id=7001]
[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=507765 time=1618605412 user_id=9431]But Jesus Himself asked, [color=#0000BF]"What shall it profit a man if he should gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"[/color](Mark 8:36)

Great question. It is possible for you to choose whatever you think are your own temporal interests, and with that choice, lose your soul. So says Jesus Christ.[/quote]According to Mark; probably not his real name. Anyone who believes the Bible is an historical document picks the parts of the Bible that they happen to agree with and ignores anything they find difficult. You are no exception. Here's something you ignored:[quote=tillingborn post_id=507756 time=1618599703 user_id=7001]You will no doubt be aware that when Jesus did his "Let he who is without sin" thing, he didn't see fit to cast one himself. My own view is that anyone worthy of praise would have been more concerned for the welfare of the woman, rather than the souls of the lunatics who thought stoning to death is an appropriate punishment for adultery.[/quote]Any sane person in that situation would say what the fuck are you doing stoning a woman to death for adultery? Instead, your beloved Jesus says hey guys, leave the punishment to me; I've got something far more terrible to dish out. And you approve.
[/quote]

The christian god is indeed a tyrant but there is no meaningful question about the legitimacy of creatures, persons, or forces that cannot even be verified to exist.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:51 am Here's something you ignored:
With very good reason: https://www.gotquestions.org/John-7-53-8-11.html So there's actually nothing you we can make, theologically, of that issue.
tillingborn
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:28 pm
tillingborn wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:51 am Here's something you ignored:
With very good reason: https://www.gotquestions.org/John-7-53-8-11.html So there's actually nothing you we can make, theologically, of that issue.
Here's my favourite bit: "is the story of the adulterous woman forgiven by Jesus a later, uninspired insertion into the text?" Granted it may be uninspired, but the fact that it is controversial, rather than obvious suggests that the difference between words inspired by God and those written by men is negligible. Is there any passage you are aware of that has never been challenged by any scholar, because it is clearly the word of God?
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Lacewing
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Re: the righteous tyrant

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Age wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:54 am
Lacewing wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:42 pm
Age wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:15 am I KNOW who 'I' am.
Who or what is that?
That is God, or in other words;

Who 'I' am is thee, invisible, Mind. And,

What 'I' am is thee, visible, Universe.

Which is NOT to be mistaken with who nor what 'i' am. This is a TOTALLY different 'thing'.
Who do you think you are?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:40 pm Is there any passage you are aware of that has never been challenged by any scholar, because it is clearly the word of God?
Well, the Bible in its entirety has been questioned by some person somewhere, not because it should be, but because there's nothing that some person somewhere won't doubt, no matter how well attested it might be.

But do you really want a discussion of manuscript criticism between Torah and Revelation? It's a big and important...and rather dry...topic. So I think maybe doing your own research about it would be better than indulging in a long exploration of it here. We certainly don't have the spaces here to do it any justice.

The short point is only this: there was no validity to your earlier complaint, and that was why I didn't bother with it.
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Lacewing
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Lacewing »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:16 pm
Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:13 pm Your god...
I see I was wise not to answer you. You're still in the same, rather blasphemous, frame of mind.
I'm asking a reasonable question. It's not blasphemous to me at all.

If it's NOT a reflection of you, then why is it...

tangled up in ego and hypocrisy?
limited and small-minded?
founded on divisiveness?
glorifying you?
not representing nor embracing the whole, and pretending to be above that which it is fully a part of?

Can't you recognize man's (and your) control and distortions projected onto that which you claim is God?
tillingborn
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Re: the righteous tyrant

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:20 pmBut do you really want a discussion of manuscript criticism between Torah and Revelation?
No. One passage that is clearly inspired by God, because it couldn't have be written by a mortal will be plenty.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

Lacewing wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:34 pm Can't you recognize man's (and your) control and distortions projected onto that which you claim is God?
Well, I don't know quite where to begin with something so far from sensible, so far from what you could possibly know, and so far from the truth.

Since you give me no starting point, I will not begin. Have a nice day.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:35 pm One passage that is clearly inspired by God, because it couldn't have be written by a mortal will be plenty.
Well, there have been those who believed that the words of Jesus fit this bill nicely. (John 7:46) I invite you to read the teaching of Jesus Christ, and to arrive at your own judgment about whose words they are. Try the gospel of Mark, because it's short and well-attested. Make up your own mind.
tillingborn
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:48 pmMake up your own mind.
So there is nothing in any part of the Bible that you believe a human could not have written. Even 2000 years ago there were many more human beings than Gods of Christianity, so it is vastly more likely that a human being wrote something that is indistinguishable from something that a human being might have written, than that any part of the Bible is inspired by God. That is simple maths. And yet our salvation depends on our believing the least likely possibility. God appears to have a very cavalier attitude to our survival.
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Lacewing
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Re: the righteous tyrant

Post by Lacewing »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:41 pm
Lacewing wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:34 pm Can't you recognize man's (and your) control and distortions projected onto that which you claim is God?
Well, I don't know quite where to begin with something so far from sensible, so far from what you could possibly know, and so far from the truth.
Really? You cannot see how man imprints himself and the limits of his awareness on everything he thinks and has part in?

Including his representations of gods -- do you think he is of clear mind and pure heart THEN?

How is it that man has faults and failures in every area EXCEPT his supposed "knowledge" of God?
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