Civil war in USA

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Skip
Posts: 2721
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Skip »

gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:26 am
and why i have been a registered Independant thouugh Libertarian minded.

The Libertarian Party has moved too far to the Right post Iraqnam, so while they and i were in accord 20 yrs ago - we no longer are sadly.
Good. Stay away from them - they're only woefully, illogically, pigheadedly wrong now, but soon they'll be fascist. The fascists will gobble up all the right wingnut parties, fraternities and fellow travelers, even if they can't take over the GOOP.
Independent is okay as a position, but your vote will never count.
gaffo
Posts: 3731
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by gaffo »

Skip wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:06 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:26 am
and why i have been a registered Independant thouugh Libertarian minded.

The Libertarian Party has moved too far to the Right post Iraqnam, so while they and i were in accord 20 yrs ago - we no longer are sadly.
Good. Stay away from them - they're only woefully, illogically, pigheadedly wrong now, but soon they'll be fascist. The fascists will gobble up all the right wingnut parties, fraternities and fellow travelers, even if they can't take over the GOOP.
Independent is okay as a position, but your vote will never count.
"independant" just means the 2 (1) party fix is in ans so "none of the above = independant.

in the ideal America we would have 3-6 viable parties, so the Greens and Libertarians would have 10-20 percent of the populations (as the Progressives did 120 yrs ago). we did have the Reform (perot) party - but it was a vanity project via Perot and had no actual platform.

there is the extreme right Constitution Party, but it is smaller than the Greens and in the 15 since it formed the Republican party moved ot where they are and so the Constitution Party has become near extinct - toug never more than 1-pecent - now 1/100th of a percent.

as for the Libertarians, i view myself as a liberal libertarian - fully affirm the view that the Bill of Rights were written to protect the individual from the Gov/Mob rule, and affirm Jury Nullification/Jury Pardon (and Lysander Spooner's view on the matter) - as a power as a person to judge the accused per your conscince and to ignore the law they violated if you thinkt he law is wrong (i.e. like in the case of fugitiv slave laws 150 yrs ago - drug laws today).

i breaks my heart that the Libertarian party in 15 short yrs moved from condeming Bush jr for his illgal occupation of Iraq, to now affirming rumpinaism.

;-(.

I guess i am like one of those Soccer Mom Republcan's who's party left them behind - only my Libertarin party never med up more than 2-percent so not huge nbiggi if it leaves me.

i did vote for Ron Paul in 88 for pres. he was/is a good man and he and agree on most stuff - scially, not economically - his son though is a shit and no libertarian - he is full bore rieichug.

Cuddows to Justin Amash, i noted him in the hearings last years BTW to Cowen, and noted he left his Reich party to reg is a libertarian - michingan congressman - did he loose this time around? (i've not heard - i suspect he did - i like his character - hope tope to see him in the future).

thanks for reply!

there is only one REpubican i respect - Ben Sasse - noted hin these last 4 yrs - he played pussy during impeachment aso failed in not voting with Rmney - but otherwise he seems to affirm the same principls i do - though a tricklown republican ;-/.
Skip
Posts: 2721
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Skip »

You already have 50-some registered political parties. Start with proportional representation https://www.britannica.com/topic/propor ... esentation and see how many are still viable in four years or eight years. (Always assuming the world lasts and the US remains a democracy.) Some might do better at the state level than the federal, but that still accounts for a lot of powers. Coalition is okay, btw.
gaffo
Posts: 3731
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by gaffo »

not sure what you are smoking, but i'd like some.

here in America we have had the PRI system of gorernance for over a century.

2 parite and no more. the fix is in in all states by making the signature required to allow any 3rd party official reconition to make it nearly impossible to get any other party outsid eof REpublicrat on any ballot.

in my state we do not allow registration to be a Green, we did not allow Libertarians until only 4 yrs ago - after a 20 yr legal battle and 70,000 signatures on a petition - all the way to my state supreme court!!!!! whcih rule in favor of the libertarins)just so 2-percent could register under that party.

WTF do you think "Independant" is hte larges registerd party - which is NOT a PARTY - becuase the fix is in!!!!!! - we cannot reg into paries would would like to! so we are forced to reg "other - none o fthe above".

--the fix is in ALL 50 states! bgecasue the Republicrats state legislatures fixed the systems to block out all other 3-4-5th parties FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Sculptor »

gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:38 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:34 pm The civil war is by and large manufactured by the media.
Not just social media, but MSM too.
Whenever you see a bunch of nuts on TV in camo gear in the woods on a shooting range "preparing to protect themselves" from blacks, or jews or democrats, or commies just remmber that you are actually seeing a handful of people in a country with 360 million.

Sadly potential nutters also see this and think they might be necessary or a good idea, and form their own little group of nutters; and so it grows. Fear. Before you know it there are mobs of shouting people waving their torches looking for Frankenstein's monster.
I just saw a program on TV about Trumpanzees, waving banners repeating "election fraud" lies from Trump. Just a few 100 in any state, but the media loves it, and so other nutters see it and it grows. If you repeat a lie enough times people start to beleive it and it becomes true. Trump knows this only too well. Thanks Joseph Goebbels.

But the MSM are also contributing in this process

Without care the predictions become true.
1000 agree. three is a City/rural divide - but thre always has been, and never a war of that divide.

and ya the media is all about foster that divide - if it bleeds it leads "is the head ded yet" to quote the former Eagles siinger Don Henly. follow the $$$$$$$

my advice, - turn off your computer/TV/phone - and read a fucking book on history. maybe some Tasidous, or Gibbon's rise nad fall of the roman empir.

"media" - outside of actual news like say reuters - is for shumps.
I've no need to take your "fucking" advice. I have a BA in ancient history and archaeology, and an MA in intellectual history, and a half finished PhD thesis on Greek's Dark Age. I'd wager I've read more books than you, on this or most subects.
When you say "Tasidous". (LOL) I assume you meant to say Tacitus? Gibbon is good, but there has been so much written after him, about him and his topic, that Decline and Fall has faded into its own history.
Belinda
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Belinda »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:39 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:38 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:34 pm The civil war is by and large manufactured by the media.
Not just social media, but MSM too.
Whenever you see a bunch of nuts on TV in camo gear in the woods on a shooting range "preparing to protect themselves" from blacks, or jews or democrats, or commies just remmber that you are actually seeing a handful of people in a country with 360 million.

Sadly potential nutters also see this and think they might be necessary or a good idea, and form their own little group of nutters; and so it grows. Fear. Before you know it there are mobs of shouting people waving their torches looking for Frankenstein's monster.
I just saw a program on TV about Trumpanzees, waving banners repeating "election fraud" lies from Trump. Just a few 100 in any state, but the media loves it, and so other nutters see it and it grows. If you repeat a lie enough times people start to beleive it and it becomes true. Trump knows this only too well. Thanks Joseph Goebbels.

But the MSM are also contributing in this process

Without care the predictions become true.
1000 agree. three is a City/rural divide - but thre always has been, and never a war of that divide.

and ya the media is all about foster that divide - if it bleeds it leads "is the head ded yet" to quote the former Eagles siinger Don Henly. follow the $$$$$$$

my advice, - turn off your computer/TV/phone - and read a fucking book on history. maybe some Tasidous, or Gibbon's rise nad fall of the roman empir.

"media" - outside of actual news like say reuters - is for shumps.
I've no need to take your "fucking" advice. I have a BA in ancient history and archaeology, and an MA in intellectual history, and a half finished PhD thesis on Greek's Dark Age. I'd wager I've read more books than you, on this or most subects.
When you say "Tasidous". (LOL) I assume you meant to say Tacitus? Gibbon is good, but there has been so much written after him, about him and his topic, that Decline and Fall has faded into its own history.
By "intellectual history" do you refer to history of ideas?
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Sculptor »

Belinda wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:41 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:39 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:38 am

1000 agree. three is a City/rural divide - but thre always has been, and never a war of that divide.

and ya the media is all about foster that divide - if it bleeds it leads "is the head ded yet" to quote the former Eagles siinger Don Henly. follow the $$$$$$$

my advice, - turn off your computer/TV/phone - and read a fucking book on history. maybe some Tasidous, or Gibbon's rise nad fall of the roman empir.

"media" - outside of actual news like say reuters - is for shumps.
I've no need to take your "fucking" advice. I have a BA in ancient history and archaeology, and an MA in intellectual history, and a half finished PhD thesis on Greek's Dark Age. I'd wager I've read more books than you, on this or most subects.
When you say "Tasidous". (LOL) I assume you meant to say Tacitus? Gibbon is good, but there has been so much written after him, about him and his topic, that Decline and Fall has faded into its own history.
By "intellectual history" do you refer to history of ideas?
Exactly
gaffo
Posts: 3731
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by gaffo »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:39 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:38 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:34 pm The civil war is by and large manufactured by the media.
Not just social media, but MSM too.
Whenever you see a bunch of nuts on TV in camo gear in the woods on a shooting range "preparing to protect themselves" from blacks, or jews or democrats, or commies just remmber that you are actually seeing a handful of people in a country with 360 million.

Sadly potential nutters also see this and think they might be necessary or a good idea, and form their own little group of nutters; and so it grows. Fear. Before you know it there are mobs of shouting people waving their torches looking for Frankenstein's monster.
I just saw a program on TV about Trumpanzees, waving banners repeating "election fraud" lies from Trump. Just a few 100 in any state, but the media loves it, and so other nutters see it and it grows. If you repeat a lie enough times people start to beleive it and it becomes true. Trump knows this only too well. Thanks Joseph Goebbels.

But the MSM are also contributing in this process

Without care the predictions become true.
1000 agree. three is a City/rural divide - but thre always has been, and never a war of that divide.

and ya the media is all about foster that divide - if it bleeds it leads "is the head ded yet" to quote the former Eagles siinger Don Henly. follow the $$$$$$$

my advice, - turn off your computer/TV/phone - and read a fucking book on history. maybe some Tasidous, or Gibbon's rise nad fall of the roman empir.

"media" - outside of actual news like say reuters - is for shumps.
I've no need to take your "fucking" advice. I have a BA in ancient history and archaeology, and an MA in intellectual history, and a half finished PhD thesis on Greek's Dark Age. I'd wager I've read more books than you, on this or most subects.
When you say "Tasidous". (LOL) I assume you meant to say Tacitus? Gibbon is good, but there has been so much written after him, about him and his topic, that Decline and Fall has faded into its own history.
why play the asshole and be one when i was agreeing with you?

i value your posts .....................thanks for showing your character bubba.

asshole.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Sculptor »

gaffo wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:37 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:39 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:38 am

1000 agree. three is a City/rural divide - but thre always has been, and never a war of that divide.

and ya the media is all about foster that divide - if it bleeds it leads "is the head ded yet" to quote the former Eagles siinger Don Henly. follow the $$$$$$$

my advice, - turn off your computer/TV/phone - and read a fucking book on history. maybe some Tasidous, or Gibbon's rise nad fall of the roman empir.

"media" - outside of actual news like say reuters - is for shumps.
I've no need to take your "fucking" advice. I have a BA in ancient history and archaeology, and an MA in intellectual history, and a half finished PhD thesis on Greek's Dark Age. I'd wager I've read more books than you, on this or most subects.
When you say "Tasidous". (LOL) I assume you meant to say Tacitus? Gibbon is good, but there has been so much written after him, about him and his topic, that Decline and Fall has faded into its own history.
why play the asshole and be one when i was agreeing with you?

i value your posts .....................thanks for showing your character bubba.

asshole.

You said " and read a fucking book on history.".
So take your fake indignation and shove it where the sun shineth not.
FrankGSterleJr
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:41 pm

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by FrankGSterleJr »

The first-past-the-post electoral system just barely qualifies as democratic rule within the democracy spectrum.

American and Canadian governments, in particular, typically maintain thinly veiled yet strong ties to large corporations, as though elected heads are meant to represent big money interests over those of the working citizenry and poor.

I believe it reflects why those powerful interests generally resist proportional representation electoral systems of governance, the latter which tends to dilute the corporate lobbyist influence on the former.

As much as I’m glad Trump lost, I’m really doubtful that a Biden/Harris governance will make a marked improvement in poor and low-income Americans’ quality of life, however much the pair might try. And I have a hard time imagining anything resembling ‘Obamacare’ coming back.

Those doubting the powerful persuasion of huge business interests need to consider how governing officials can feel crippled by implicit or explicit corporate threats to transfer or eliminate jobs and capital investment, thus economic stability, all of which is being made even worse by a blaring news-media naturally critical of the government.

Also concerning is that corporate representatives actually write bills for our governing representatives to vote for and have implemented, typically word for word, supposedly to save the elected officials their time.
Skip
Posts: 2721
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Skip »

They can't make it worse.
If the country is destined to fall or break apart, it will happen piecemeal, incrementally, not in a single, decisive* civil war.
The Trump gang has done serious damage to the political process - precipitately more than the cumulative damage that produced Trump. And when they finally leave, they won't pack up their tool-kit: all the instruments of civic destruction will remain operational for a long time yet.

The central question: Is a sufficiently percentage of the American populace smart enough and decent enough to make it work in spite of the damage? If not, perhaps it isn't worth saving.



* :roll: What am I saying? The last one hasn't even been decided yet!
Gary Childress
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Gary Childress »

Impenitent wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:03 am oh it's coming, but who owns the guns? the gun control lefties?
Good god, what a terrible thing to say. It sounds almost like petty resentment or wishful thinking. Or else a statement from someone who thinks they would be immune to the hardship and upheaval that would result. Let's hope there's no civil war. :shock:
Gary Childress
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Gary Childress »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:07 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:37 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:39 am
I've no need to take your "fucking" advice. I have a BA in ancient history and archaeology, and an MA in intellectual history, and a half finished PhD thesis on Greek's Dark Age. I'd wager I've read more books than you, on this or most subects.
When you say "Tasidous". (LOL) I assume you meant to say Tacitus? Gibbon is good, but there has been so much written after him, about him and his topic, that Decline and Fall has faded into its own history.
why play the asshole and be one when i was agreeing with you?

i value your posts .....................thanks for showing your character bubba.

asshole.

You said " and read a fucking book on history.".
So take your fake indignation and shove it where the sun shineth not.
Just a head's up from one forumite to another. It sounds like this could be a misunderstanding. It seems possible that he may not have been referring to you when he said "read a fucking book on history". Given the context of the "1000 agree" remark and him stating that he was agreeing with you, It could have been a change of direction in his writing and a general statement aimed at anyone out there who hasn't. However, I can certainly understand your reaction to being called an "asshole".
artisticsolution
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:38 am
Contact:

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by artisticsolution »

Impenitent wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:03 am oh it's coming, but who owns the guns? the gun control lefties?

utopia

-Imp
Just like a gun touting rightie to threaten to shoot an unarmed bleeding heart leftist whose only crime is to want a better world.

Dystopia
Impenitent
Posts: 3259
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Civil war in USA

Post by Impenitent »

artisticsolution wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:06 pm
Impenitent wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:03 am oh it's coming, but who owns the guns? the gun control lefties?

utopia

-Imp
Just like a gun touting rightie to threaten to shoot an unarmed bleeding heart leftist whose only crime is to want a better world.

Dystopia
history never repeats, this time utopia will work...

-Imp
Post Reply