Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10517
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 pm A change in behaviour can take place without a change of mind.
Of course. That's why the social policies against racism exist. But none of them mandates mind-change, because that's impossible.

So if a person wants to allege racism, they need to point to a particular policy that's racist. Or if they want to allege racist attitudes on the part of another person, it will be useless unless their allegation addresses specific actions that are racist. Actions and policies can be remedied by law; but it's impossible to use policy to remedy a personal attitude.
Skepdick
Posts: 5858
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:07 pm I gave you one. Why can't you answer?
No you didn't. You contrived a scenario in which I magically started using your word.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:07 pm So you would not support accusing a person of racism unless you KNEW they were racist for sure? You wouldn't do it, say, on mere "possibilities"?
I might support it. If you told me what you mean by "racism".
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:07 pm And if you did, would you be racist?
I might be. If I knew what you mean by "racist".
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:07 pm There's your "scenario." Give a straight answer, if you dare.
Sure thing. As soon as you explain what you are asking.
Skepdick
Posts: 5858
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:15 pm Or if they want to allege racist attitudes on the part of another person, it will be useless unless their allegation addresses specific actions that are racist. Actions and policies can be remedied by law; but it's impossible to use policy to remedy a personal attitude.
If behaviour is remedied, attitude doesn't matter.

There wasn't a point in my parents' lives when they believed themselves to be "racists". They still don't.

But they no longer treat my wife like a 2nd class citizen. And that's a win.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10017
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by henry quirk »

It's a lot of hogwash, Henry.

it is

that's why I can't, won't, be bothered dancin' the dance

think I'm a racist or misogynist or whatever, and this offends you, do sumthin' or back the hell off

all the chickenshits runnin' around tryin' to appease friggin' children, tryin' to appease friggin' commies (slavers), just so, mebbe, they won't get put against the wall...if things go that way: they'll be against the wall no matter how much they groveled

look here...
4814920A-C4F0-45F2-8FC6-A7717301E001.jpeg
4814920A-C4F0-45F2-8FC6-A7717301E001.jpeg (43.46 KiB) Viewed 137 times
....this is every person, ever business owner, every leader of anything, kowtowin'...this is not accommodation: this is suicide
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10517
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:22 pm You contrived a scenario in which I magically started using your word.
No, I asked you when YOU would use the word "racism." If you don't believe in using it at all, you should have answered that, instead of dodging.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:07 pm So you would not support accusing a person of racism unless you KNEW they were racist for sure? You wouldn't do it, say, on mere "possibilities"?
I might support it. If you told me what you mean by "racism".
It's when YOU would use the word. Not when I would.
Skepdick
Posts: 5858
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:27 pm It's a lot of hogwash, Henry.

it is

that's why I can't, won't, be bothered dancin' the dance

think I'm a racist or misogynist or whatever, and this offends you, do sumthin' or back the hell off

all the chickenshits runnin' around tryin' to appease friggin' children, tryin' to appease friggin' commies (slavers), just so, mebbe, they won't get put against the wall...if things go that way: they'll be against the wall no matter how much they groveled

look here...

4814920A-C4F0-45F2-8FC6-A7717301E001.jpeg

....this is every person, ever business owner, every leader of anything, kowtowin'...this is not accommodation: this is suicide
Henry, has it ever crossed your mind that you might have the ass burgers?

That is, you don't actually care about other people's state of mind when interacting with you.

Like. Running a successful business literally requires you to do what other people ask. It's very peculiar that you can't extend this mode of being to interacting with other humans.
Skepdick
Posts: 5858
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:30 pm No, I asked you when YOU would use the word "racism." If you don't believe in using it at all, you should have answered that, instead of dodging.
I expressed this exact sentiment in my very first post, gold fish.

And subsequently thereafter. Are you confused?
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:30 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:07 pm So you would not support accusing a person of racism unless you KNEW they were racist for sure? You wouldn't do it, say, on mere "possibilities"?
I might support it. If you told me what you mean by "racism".
It's when YOU would use the word. Not when I would.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

When would YOU use the word "worfelist" to accuse somebody? I know you don't know what I mean by it, but just tell me when YOU would use it. Damn it!!!

The word is useless in practice when challenging behaviour in exactly the same way the word "rape" is useless in challenging rapists.
Most rape suspects I've ever arrested didn't realise that what they were DOING was called "rape". In their own minds the word meant something else and didn't apply to their own behavior.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10517
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:23 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:15 pm Or if they want to allege racist attitudes on the part of another person, it will be useless unless their allegation addresses specific actions that are racist. Actions and policies can be remedied by law; but it's impossible to use policy to remedy a personal attitude.
If behaviour is remedied, attitude doesn't matter.
Well, maybe it "matters," but it's not a matter that can be remedied by law. Your parents can't be sued for their reaction to your wife, even if such a reaction were really appalling and felt unpleasant.

But on the other side, I've seen the "hurt" party refuse to believe genuine attempts to be kind, because she read condescension into any attempt to reach out to her. That can happen, too. Reverse-racism is just as big a problem as original racism, sometimes.

We'd be better to get over the whole thing. All the laws that can be made about it already exist. Any residual problem is not something the law can cure, either way.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10517
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:40 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:30 pm It's when YOU would use the word. Not when I would.
When would YOU use the word "worfelist" to accuse somebody?
Never.

See? I can answer honestly.

So is your answer the same for "racism"?
Skepdick
Posts: 5858
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm Never.

See? I can answer honestly.
So you wouldn't use it even if you learned what "worfelist" meant, and even if the person committed an act of worfelism?

I don't know about you, but I am not in the habit making absolute claims about my future self.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm So is your answer the same for "racism"?
No. It isn't.
Last edited by Skepdick on Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 10017
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by henry quirk »

Henry, has it ever crossed your mind that you might have the ass burgers?

no, appeaser, it hasn't


That is, you don't actually care about other people's state of mind when interacting with you.

I'm well aware of what others say and do...I take 'em at their word


Like. Running a successful business literally requires you to do what other people ask. It's very peculiar that you can't extend this mode of being to interacting with other humans.

as a successful self-employer, I know as fact, doin' what you've contracted to do is not the same as lickin' the backsides of would-be masters
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10517
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:00 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm Never.

See? I can answer honestly.
So you wouldn't use it even if you learned what "worfelist" meant, and even if the person commited worfelism?
It's not even a word, so I would never use it.

In the same way, if you don't think "racism" is a word, or that it refers to any real thing, just say so.

Is that what you think?
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm So is your answer the same for "racism"?
No. It isn't.
Good. So when WOULD you use the word "racism"?

Would you use it for somebody who alleged "racism" in another, with no more than grounds of skin colour as a basis?
Skepdick
Posts: 5858
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:02 pm as a successful self-employer, I know as fact, doin' what you've contracted to do is not the same as lickin' the backsides of would-be masters
It's exactly the same. Social contracts are negotiated no differently to work contracts.
Skepdick
Posts: 5858
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:04 pm It's not even a word, so I would never use it.

In the same way, if you don't think "racism" is a word, or that it refers to any real thing, just say so.

Is that what you think?
Obviously it's a word. Other people use it.

It's simply missing from my vocabulary - I don't know how to use it.

That doesn't mean it's not a useful word.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:04 pm Good. So when WOULD you use the word "racism"?

Would you use it for somebody who alleged "racism" in another, with no more than grounds of skin colour as a basis?
Non-sequitur. I can't answer you until you help me bring the word into my vocabulary.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10517
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:05 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:04 pm It's not even a word, so I would never use it.

In the same way, if you don't think "racism" is a word, or that it refers to any real thing, just say so.

Is that what you think?
Obviously it's a word. Other people use it.
I don't.

Do you do the same with the word "racism," simply never use it? But you've used it already in this discussion...
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:04 pm Good. So when WOULD you use the word "racism"?

Would you use it for somebody who alleged "racism" in another, with no more than grounds of skin colour as a basis?
Non-sequitur. I can't answer you until you help me bring the word into my vocabulary.
So you have no word "racism" in your vocabulary? If that's so, you've spent a lot of time talking about something you don't even understand as a concept, apparently. Do you always talk about things about which you have no conception?
Post Reply