Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Skepdick
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

SteveKlinko wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:02 pm Use of Lethal Force is a very subjective thing when dealing with crazed Criminals in the Fog of a difficult arrest. Easy to criticize with 2020 hindsight and lots of time to think about situations that need split second action.
You are talking right past the point of the people who are outraged.

Yes. There are justifiable shootings and hard decisions to make as police officers. Yes there are many situations any reasonable person under duress would've made a split-second decision and used lethal force. Yes - I am a police officer and I agree with ALL of those things.

Those aren't the problems people speak against!

The problem are all the other shootings which reek of poor training, where officers fearful for their own lives have no other tools at their disposal BUT to use lethal force.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9558
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:34 pm You are talking right past the point of the people who are outraged.
So? Outrage, like every other emotion, has to be justified by the facts. Unjustified outrage should not be indulged.

Here are the facts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQCQFH5wOJo&t=68s
Skepdick
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:40 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:34 pm You are talking right past the point of the people who are outraged.
So? Outrage, like every other emotion, has to be justified by the facts. Unjustified outrage should not be indulged.

Here are the facts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQCQFH5wOJo&t=68s
You strike me as a man who isn't too fond in examining the facts of each case on its own merits.

I bet your video (recorded in 20116) is useful towards dismissing the justified objections of victims of police brutality in the last week.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9558
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:53 pm You strike me as a man who isn't too fond in examining the facts of each case on its own merits.
Sure I am. But I'm also a man who knows the difference between one case and statistics.
Skepdick
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:08 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:53 pm You strike me as a man who isn't too fond in examining the facts of each case on its own merits.
Sure I am. But I'm also a man who knows the difference between one case and statistics.
We've established on numerous occasions that you don't understand statistics.

That's why you dodged the point about the relevance of "statistical" evidence from 2016 on particular examples of possible police brutality in 2020.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9558
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:11 pm you dodged the point about the relevance of "statistical" evidence from 2016 on particular examples of possible police brutality in 2020.
"Particular" examples (i.e. single cases) of "possible" (i.e. undetermined) cases? Heh. :D That's about as unstatistical a language as a person can use.

Watch the video. It will put some facts in your pocket.
Skepdick
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:27 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:11 pm you dodged the point about the relevance of "statistical" evidence from 2016 on particular examples of possible police brutality in 2020.
"Particular" examples (i.e. single cases) of "possible" (i.e. undetermined) cases? Heh. :D That's about as unstatistical a language as a person can use.

Watch the video. It will put some facts in your pocket.
Q.E.D misapplication of statistics.

"Possibilities" and "probabilities" are statistical constructs.

Determination is not.
SteveKlinko
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by SteveKlinko »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:34 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:02 pm Use of Lethal Force is a very subjective thing when dealing with crazed Criminals in the Fog of a difficult arrest. Easy to criticize with 2020 hindsight and lots of time to think about situations that need split second action.
You are talking right past the point of the people who are outraged.

Yes. There are justifiable shootings and hard decisions to make as police officers. Yes there are many situations any reasonable person under duress would've made a split-second decision and used lethal force. Yes - I am a police officer and I agree with ALL of those things.

Those aren't the problems people speak against!

The problem are all the other shootings which reek of poor training, where officers fearful for their own lives have no other tools at their disposal BUT to use lethal force.
Poor training is not Racism.
Skepdick
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

SteveKlinko wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:51 pm Poor training is not Racism.
OK. What is it that you think Racism is?
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9558
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:30 pm "Possibilities" and "probabilities" are statistical constructs.
Not in the way you use them, apparently.

You use single cases, cases you admit you do not actually know have any racism in them at all, to try to justify outrage, and to argue for a policy change. That's absurd. By your own admission, you haven't even established that there is a link between the single case and racism (you say it's only "possible" racism), let alone a significant number of cases and racism.

Watch the video. It will help you.
Skepdick
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:58 pm Not in the way you use them, apparently.
Exactly the way I use them.

Exactly the way any criminal court applies the notion of "beyond reasonable doubt" to the merits of any individual cases.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:58 pm You use single cases, cases you admit you do not actually know have any racism in them at all, to try to justify outrage, and to argue for a policy change. That's absurd. By your own admission, you haven't even established that there is a link between the single case and racism (you say it's only "possible" racism), let alone a significant number of cases and racism.
I've said nothing of that sort, but I love it when the Evil Genius reveals is conniving plan to the unsuspecting audience.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:58 pm Watch the video. It will help you.
I've watched the video. It was the propaganda I used to spread.

Before I realised I was wrong ;)
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9558
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:04 pm Before I realised I was wrong ;)
How did you "realize [you were] wrong"? What convinced you that the statistics were all untrue?
Skepdick
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:08 pm How did you "realize [you were] wrong"? What convinced you that the statistics were all untrue?
I learned statistics. Then I could recognise its mis-application.

I strongly advise it...
SteveKlinko
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by SteveKlinko »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:57 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:51 pm Poor training is not Racism.
OK. What is it that you think Racism is?
Here we go again. When you can't argue the topic then go start questioning the meaning of words. Yawn.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9558
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:08 pm How did you "realize [you were] wrong"? What convinced you that the statistics were all untrue?
I learned statistics.
Yeah, well, they should have started you with this axiom: "an anecdote is not data."

Check that: they should have taught you that "possible" doesn't mean "certain" as well.

But not all education is equal, I guess.
Post Reply