I don't believe in the personal God. If the universe is the body of God governed by universal laws, how do the Ten Commandments support the needs of the body? i cannot accept that a supreme being is upset about morality. there must be more to it.
Since Man as a whole is incapable of objective universal conscience, we rely on man made interpretations called morality. It isn't that any supreme being is insulted but rather the commandments allow us to see how we forget our conscious potential to become ourselves and sink into the world dominated by negative emotions
My priority isn't to serve morality or to pacify a genocidal God. My priority is in becoming a conscious balanced human being gradually becoming open to conscience for the sake of understanding objective human meaning and purpose.
We are designed to evolve and reproduce.
What other objective moral tenet do you see in reality?
Regards
DL
What you call evolution I call adaptation. Animal man doesn't evolve; rather it adapts to worldly conditions. Evolution is the growth of being. It is the change of one quality of being into another. Adaptation is the change of a given quality of being. Animal Man adapts while conscious Man evolves.
Thou shall not kill is a commandment most associate with societal life. Yet its deeper meaning is not to commit murder in the heart. All it does is cheapen the heart and deny its connection with higher consciousness. It is a universal axiom not just limited to our earth and necessary to help sustain evolutionary life in our universe.
What other objective moral tenet do you see in reality?
Regards
DL
What you call evolution I call adaptation. Animal man doesn't evolve; rather it adapts to worldly conditions. Evolution is the growth of being. It is the change of one quality of being into another. Adaptation is the change of a given quality of being. Animal Man adapts while conscious Man evolves.
Thou shall not kill is a commandment most associate with societal life. Yet its deeper meaning is not to commit murder in the heart. All it does is cheapen the heart and deny its connection with higher consciousness. It is a universal axiom not just limited to our earth and necessary to help sustain evolutionary life in our universe.
No argument on this.
Regards
DL
Now we get to the difficult part. The tribe or what Plato called the Beast doesn't evolve. However some people within the tribe are capable of conscious evolution. Even though the world, lacking experiential understanding, is against them, how can they consciously evolve.
IMO a person will have had to experience that the world is incapable of providing the need for meaning felt by the heart. Then they need the will to become capable of conscious attention leading to detachment.
“Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached. ” ~ Simone Weil
We see this now in the streets. People are destroying the works of others by being attached to talking points. Of course these poor souls are so blinded they no longer can "feel" the needs of the soul and incapable of detachment long enough to at least experience the absurdity of it. The tribe is this way. However there are those individuals who can develop will as opposed to blind reactions to desire and become detached long enough "see" what they have become in contrast to human conscious potential. They may be killed but their efforts will be an essential awakening influence. A noble death.
The Beast is an imaginary construct on the wall of the cave.
It is mythos and one must leave the cave and deal with the real world and be led by logos.
No, the Great Beast is society. There is a growing branch of sociology which suggests that the whole of society is a living organism which is the same idea. From Book VI of his Republic:
(here Plato critiques those who are "wise" through their study of society):
I might compare them to a man who should study the tempers and desires of a mighty strong beast who is fed by him--he would learn how to approach and handle him, also at what times and from what causes he is dangerous or the reverse, and what is the meaning of his several cries, and by what sounds, when another utters them, he is soothed or infuriated; and you may suppose further, that when, by continually attending upon him, he has become perfect in all this, he calls his knowledge wisdom, and makes of it a system or art, which he proceeds to teach, although he has no real notion of what he means by the principles or passions of which he is speaking, but calls this honourable and that dishonourable, or good or evil, or just or unjust, all in accordance with the tastes and tempers of the great brute. Good he pronounces to be that in which the beast delights and evil to be that which he dislikes...
If we are to feed the human and not the lion, as Socrates advised, we must know the human, and that is what Gnosis is all about.
The Beast master may control the Beast but doesn't know what it is. The Beast master doesn't even know itself. They are both part of the Great Beast. The dialectic is limited to logic which by itself cannot answer the question of what we are. So the intelligent man must begin with the axiom: I know nothing. Understanding requires more than logic
Human enjoyment and love of life is based on our having purpose.
Very true. Human Beings asleep in Plato's Cave cannot feel objective purpose leading to the chaos and hypocrisy that dominates the world.
The real fighting/drama goes on in the real political world. There lies our purpose.
Does politics provide the path to objective human purpose or does it deny it?
I would say being attached to the political struggle for subjective meaning denies objective meaning.
Mark 12:17 ~ Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.
Do we know the difference between the two and how a person can do it?
We are our DNA and a part of nature. Sure we are all in this together, but alone.
Your DNA and mine told us at birth that we were the fittest of our line.
Do not give up your position. I will not give up mine till forced to do so.
Both our spiritual side and political sides have a role to play. The political is the physical and must be given priority as it houses whatever we think god is.
Christian inquisitors lied about our hating matter. We love matter as it holds our souls and life.
Our political purposes come first. That is where we show our fitness. Not in our imaginary spiritual world.
We are tribal by nature and human laws must be followed first and not religious/other tribes laws.
We need give our own security of the person first consideration. Bow to Cesar so that you can be here to bow to your god.
Our purpose is to improve Cesar's laws by fighting the bad ones.
I gambled with 18 years in jail for the cause I chose. Have you tried to improve things knowing there was a really heavy price to pay for failure?
No reply is necessary on this personal stuff. I was just wanting to generate thought and do not want to make this personal. I hear that that is for small minds. Let's be large.
Greatest I am wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:10 pm
We are our DNA and a part of nature. Sure we are all in this together, but alone.
Your DNA and mine told us at birth that we were the fittest of our line.
Do not give up your position. I will not give up mine till forced to do so.
Both our spiritual side and political sides have a role to play. The political is the physical and must be given priority as it houses whatever we think god is.
Christian inquisitors lied about our hating matter. We love matter as it holds our souls and life.
Our political purposes come first. That is where we show our fitness. Not in our imaginary spiritual world.
We are tribal by nature and human laws must be followed first and not religious/other tribes laws.
We need give our own security of the person first consideration. Bow to Cesar so that you can be here to bow to your god.
Our purpose is to improve Cesar's laws by fighting the bad ones.
I gambled with 18 years in jail for the cause I chose. Have you tried to improve things knowing there was a really heavy price to pay for failure?
No reply is necessary on this personal stuff. I was just wanting to generate thought and do not want to make this personal. I hear that that is for small minds. Let's be large.
Regards
DL
The question of the nature of Man is an important one both from a practical and philosophical perspective. Before appreciating either Christianity or Gnosticism perhaps Plato can be a help.. Plato isn't discussed often on this site but his chariot allegory can explain my perspective and perhaps you can explain why you would disagree with it. If it appeals to you, we could discuss it on thread called: Plato's Chariot.
Here is a link to a site which explains what the chariot and the driver are along with what the white and dark horses represent. From this perspective, matter isn't evil. The dark horse representing our lower nature has become corrupted. Can our lower and higher natures live together as a healthy tripartite soul? Don't kill the sick horse; can it be made healthy again?
Greatest I am wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:10 pm
We are our DNA and a part of nature. Sure we are all in this together, but alone.
Your DNA and mine told us at birth that we were the fittest of our line.
Do not give up your position. I will not give up mine till forced to do so.
Both our spiritual side and political sides have a role to play. The political is the physical and must be given priority as it houses whatever we think god is.
Christian inquisitors lied about our hating matter. We love matter as it holds our souls and life.
Our political purposes come first. That is where we show our fitness. Not in our imaginary spiritual world.
We are tribal by nature and human laws must be followed first and not religious/other tribes laws.
We need give our own security of the person first consideration. Bow to Cesar so that you can be here to bow to your god.
Our purpose is to improve Cesar's laws by fighting the bad ones.
I gambled with 18 years in jail for the cause I chose. Have you tried to improve things knowing there was a really heavy price to pay for failure?
No reply is necessary on this personal stuff. I was just wanting to generate thought and do not want to make this personal. I hear that that is for small minds. Let's be large.
Regards
DL
The question of the nature of Man is an important one both from a practical and philosophical perspective. Before appreciating either Christianity or Gnosticism perhaps Plato can be a help.. Plato isn't discussed often on this site but his chariot allegory can explain my perspective and perhaps you can explain why you would disagree with it. If it appeals to you, we could discuss it on thread called: Plato's Chariot.
Here is a link to a site which explains what the chariot and the driver are along with what the white and dark horses represent. From this perspective, matter isn't evil. The dark horse representing our lower nature has become corrupted. Can our lower and higher natures live together as a healthy tripartite soul? Don't kill the sick horse; can it be made healthy again?
Matter, to a Gnostic Christian, is quite good regardless of the lies that the inquisitors told of us to justify their evil inquisitions.
I do not disagree with Socrates. He was predicting that eventually we would choose good trained leaders to lead instead of the popular candidate who did not know how to do so.
Have you ever watched --- Yes Priminister?
The head of departments can be changed with the political whim of the country/voter, but the bureaucrats remain to make sure the ship stays on course.
Politics and leadership is a hard trade to master. Those who can at least run departments should be left to do so.
That, to me, is what Socrates was trying to teach us.
