TRUMP AND IRAN

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:13 am

And insane :|

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Sculptor
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Sculptor » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:40 am

henry quirk wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:58 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:05 am
I'd like to canvas opinions as to why Trump unilaterally dumped Obama's Iran nuclear deal of 2015.

With the entire world scratching its head, whilst urging the US to return to the deal, I wonder whether there was any specific reasoning behind dumping the deal.
Has it proven to be a good idea? How's is working out for the USA?
What is the underlying political philosophy behind the idea, if any?
It was a bad deal: the root bein' Iran as the primary monitor of itself.

Remains to be seen how it'll play out. At the very least: everything is on the table now.

Pick one...

*Standard American interventionism

*Defanging a potential global threat
I think the only way this global threat is going to be stopped is by the international community getting together to condemn the USA's constant warmongering and interference

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Sculptor
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Sculptor » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:47 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:06 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:58 pm
Remains to be seen how it'll play out. At the very least: everything is on the table now.
I've known several Iranians, and in fact, was out two nights ago having dinner with one of my closest Iranian (he prefers "Persian") friends. Those that I have met have been lovely people...urbane, cultured, smart, generous, hospitable, and civilized in a very refined sense of that word...So I can't help but have some faith in the possibility of normal Iranians (not the Islamic loonies burning flags and marching in the streets, the real, normal Iranians) finding their way to a better life.

What stands between them and the life they deserve, at present, is the regime that Obama administration was trusting. The fox was indeed in charge of the proverbial henhouse, there.

That deal had to end, for the good of common Iranians, as well as for the world.
Your "Persian" friends were the benefactors of the US led coup that gave Shah Resi Pahlavi the reins of power to murder, torture and run Iran like Hitler would have. It's easy to be cultured when you are part of an aristocracy that is handed out all the privilege, with no responsibility.
I knew several "Persian" types, back the 80s when I was a Computer teacher. They were polite, misogynistic, dripping in gold, smart clothes ,and thick as a planks.

Had the west supported the "moderates" in the revolution we'd not be here now. If they had no instigated the coup that led to the tyrannies of the Shah we'd not be here now.

Extreme politics is a response to extreme pressure. Maybe had we not funded Saddam's nine year war against Iran we'd not be here now.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:00 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:47 am
Your "Persian" friends were the benefactors of the US led coup that gave Shah Resi Pahlavi the reins of power...
Actually, they weren't. They are too young to be.

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henry quirk
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by henry quirk » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:57 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:13 am
And insane :|
Obviously: so, beware.

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henry quirk
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by henry quirk » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:57 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:40 am
henry quirk wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:58 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:05 am
I'd like to canvas opinions as to why Trump unilaterally dumped Obama's Iran nuclear deal of 2015.

With the entire world scratching its head, whilst urging the US to return to the deal, I wonder whether there was any specific reasoning behind dumping the deal.
Has it proven to be a good idea? How's is working out for the USA?
What is the underlying political philosophy behind the idea, if any?
It was a bad deal: the root bein' Iran as the primary monitor of itself.

Remains to be seen how it'll play out. At the very least: everything is on the table now.

Pick one...

*Standard American interventionism

*Defanging a potential global threat
I think the only way this global threat is going to be stopped is by the international community getting together to condemn the USA's constant warmongering and interference
Bring it on.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:52 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:57 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:40 am
I think the only way this global threat is going to be stopped is by the international community getting together to condemn the USA's constant warmongering and interference
Bring it on.
It's always interesting to me that the Left wants globalism and the United Nations, which are American constructs premised on Leftist American ideas, and don't want their own militaries involved overseas, and berate the Americans for being too involved, "warmongering" and "interfering." :shock:

That the Left doesn't get that those two things are one reason why the UN is such a useless entity is rife with irony. The UN Is toothless because the Americans don't "interfere" and "warmonger" far harder than they do, and because the other nations, like my own, don't want to contribute squat to global enforcement.

But we can be grateful that the Left just isn't smarter and more consistent. We might be stuck with forcible globalism, if they were.

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Sculptor
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Sculptor » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:57 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:00 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:47 am
Your "Persian" friends were the benefactors of the US led coup that gave Shah Resi Pahlavi the reins of power...
Actually, they weren't. They are too young to be.
How long have their families been in the West? People who refer to themselves as Persian are usually the right wing traditionalists.

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Sculptor
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Sculptor » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:58 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:52 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:57 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:40 am
I think the only way this global threat is going to be stopped is by the international community getting together to condemn the USA's constant warmongering and interference
Bring it on.
It's always interesting to me that the Left wants globalism and the United Nations, which are American constructs premised on Leftist American ideas, and don't want their own militaries involved overseas, and berate the Americans for being too involved, "warmongering" and "interfering." :shock:

That the Left doesn't get that those two things are one reason why the UN is such a useless entity is rife with irony. The UN Is toothless because the Americans don't "interfere" and "warmonger" far harder than they do, and because the other nations, like my own, don't want to contribute squat to global enforcement.

But we can be grateful that the Left just isn't smarter and more consistent. We might be stuck with forcible globalism, if they were.
The entity you like to call "the left" is a phantom of your imagination, a mental space where you put things you do not like.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:59 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:57 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:00 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:47 am
Your "Persian" friends were the benefactors of the US led coup that gave Shah Resi Pahlavi the reins of power...
Actually, they weren't. They are too young to be.
How long have their families been in the West? People who refer to themselves as Persian are usually the right wing traditionalists.
Actually, they tend to call themselves "Persian" ever since the Ayatolla et al. took the American hostages, since that was really bad PR for the country. They also tend to be proud of their history, and "Persian" also captures that. But it has zippo to do with their personal politics.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:00 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:58 pm
The entity you like to call "the left" is a phantom of your imagination, a mental space where you put things you do not like.
So you don't believe "the Left" really exists? But you think "the Right" does? :shock:

Funny that there could be a "right wing," as you call it, and just a big, vacant space on the "left" of that.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:02 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:00 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:58 pm
The entity you like to call "the left" is a phantom of your imagination, a mental space where you put things you do not like.
So you don't believe "the Left" really exists? But you think "the Right" does? :shock:

Funny that there could be a "right wing," as you call it, and just a big, vacant space on the "left" of that.
You never learn. Sculptor is correct. You simply have this vague, convenient entity called 'the left' which 'just happens' to encompass everything you dislike and disagree with. Odd that you never describe yourself or your buddies like Henry as 'right wing'. Why is that?
Americans don't seem to be capable of learning or changing--too full of arrogance and conceit, and their own innate 'superiority'.
They complain about being 'stereotyped' yet continually confirm the stereotype with all the moronic things they say and 'think'.
Is there something in their water?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:13 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:02 pm
You simply have this vague, convenient entity called 'the left' which 'just happens' to encompass everything you dislike and disagree with. Odd that you never describe yourself or your buddies like Henry as 'right wing'. Why is that?
Because he's not. He's what would be called a "classical liberal" in a lot of ways..big on rights and personal freedom, small on government. And before the Left went radical, that was considered a centrist-left position. He's very far from being "right wing," especially as the Left now likes to define "right wing".

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:26 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:13 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:02 pm
You simply have this vague, convenient entity called 'the left' which 'just happens' to encompass everything you dislike and disagree with. Odd that you never describe yourself or your buddies like Henry as 'right wing'. Why is that?
Because he's not. He's what would be called a "classical liberal" in a lot of ways..big on rights and personal freedom, small on government. And before the Left went radical, that was considered a centrist-left position. He's very far from being "right wing," especially as the Left now likes to define "right wing".
You can't have it both ways, moron. If everything you don't like is 'left' then everything you do like must be 'right'.
And how the fuck is being anti-warmongering being 'left'? It's just being a decent human being.
How is stating facts being a 'wing'?
Funny how it's the religious fuckturds who are the biggest warmongers, but entirely expected.
And what the fuck is a 'classic liberal'?(and do NOT copy paste a wiki passage!)
Liberal is liberal, and fuck you illiterate yank shitheads for destroying an extremely useful word!

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Immanuel Can
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Re: TRUMP AND IRAN

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:38 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:26 pm
You can't have it both ways.... If everything you don't like is 'left' then everything you do like must be 'right'.
You don't believe in centrist positions? I do.
And what...is a 'classic liberal'?
Stanford says, "Classical liberals employ a second argument connecting liberty and private property. Rather than insisting that the freedom to obtain and employ private property is simply one aspect of people’s liberty, this second argument insists that private property effectively protects liberty, and no protection can be effective without private property."

Henry's pro liberty and pro private property, and perceives a key link between the latter and the former. That's a Classical Liberal basic.

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