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Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:33 pm
by duszek
In the highly instructive novel by Frederick Forsych "Avenger" I was told that the US had passed a law that they could chase a murderer of a US citizen also in a foreign country if this country was not cooperating. To do this they would use secret agents, many of them experienced war veterans.

It does not sound unfair to me.
But would USA mind if other countries did the same ? That is chased murderers of their citizens on the US territory ?
It would be fair that the rule applied both ways.

Any thoughts ?

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:57 am
by Impenitent
American agents seeking covert revenge abroad?

never...

-Imp

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:46 pm
by Arising_uk
Doesn't answer the question imp.

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:26 am
by gaffo
duszek wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:33 pm In the highly instructive novel by Frederick Forsych "Avenger" I was told that the US had passed a law that they could chase a murderer of a US citizen also in a foreign country if this country was not cooperating. To do this they would use secret agents, many of them experienced war veterans.

It does not sound unfair to me.
But would USA mind if other countries did the same ? That is chased murderers of their citizens on the US territory ?
It would be fair that the rule applied both ways.

Any thoughts ?
seems to be a mater of internatonal law and extadition.

other nations may have similar laws.

not sure your point.

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:15 pm
by Impenitent
Arising_uk wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:46 pm Doesn't answer the question imp.
personal vengeance doesn't know borders or laws...

covert "intelligence" agencies operating where operations occur outside of public knowledge almost renders the question moot...

I'm sure Mossad, CIA, and KGB operations domestic and abroad were all fictional

the "minding" of the USA is often dependent on the media...

-Imp

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:16 pm
by Arising_uk
Still not answering the question.

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:37 pm
by duszek
In the novel in question a young American man went to Bosnia to help refugees and got murdered by a Serbian criminal who just disappeared when Milosevic was removed from power.
The grand father of the young man asked a senator for help but the 16 intelligence services in the US (CIA, NSA and all the others) did not know the criminal man´s whereabouts.
So the grand father used the services of a private investigator who went to Serbia, then to Emirates to track the gangster and to deliver him to the US justice officials.

This scenario sounds fair to me.

My question is would the US mind if damaged parties from other countries did the same chasing a criminal hiding on the US territory ?

Some Russian secret agents seem to do this kind of work on the territory of the UK and the British seem to mind a lot.

The person chased is an alleged murderer and not a convicted one. So the secret agent operating abroad should just kidnap him or her and bring him or her to justice alive.

This has happened long ago with Eichmann, hasn´t it ? The Israelis caught him alive in South America and brought him to Israel for trial.

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:07 am
by Gary Childress
duszek wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:33 pm In the highly instructive novel by Frederick Forsych "Avenger" I was told that the US had passed a law that they could chase a murderer of a US citizen also in a foreign country if this country was not cooperating. To do this they would use secret agents, many of them experienced war veterans.

It does not sound unfair to me.
But would USA mind if other countries did the same ? That is chased murderers of their citizens on the US territory ?
It would be fair that the rule applied both ways.

Any thoughts ?
I think the US government and many US citizens would mind very much if a foreign country didn't use official diplomatic means to get such a person extradited. And if the other country tried to use diplomatic means and the US denied the request, then I think the US government and many citizens would equally mind very much if the foreign country used agents to carry out such a task in violation of the denial. However, technically, I don't think the US should deny such a request if it was reasonably determined that the person may be guilty of such a serious crime.

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:19 pm
by gaffo
duszek wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:33 pm In the highly instructive novel by Frederick Forsych "Avenger" I was told that the US had passed a law that they could chase a murderer of a US citizen also in a foreign country if this country was not cooperating.
ideally its per Rule of Law - is the that nation a member of the UN? /etc.

per Rule of Law, if a US (or other persion of any other nation) violates their native laws, but live in foriegn lands - their fate is up to the foriegn lands laws.

Re: Is it o.k. to chase a murderer in a foreign country ?

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:29 pm
by gaffo
Impenitent wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:57 am American agents seeking covert revenge abroad?

never...

-Imp
Trudau - the daddy - 70's ordered his top henchmen to travail to Paris and kill the top Quecer independance leader.

there was a book written about it 30 yrs ago BTW. Daddy never affirm the action as fact of course (it happened (two bullets in a guy in Paris on orders of the PM of Canada) it was of course - and so illegal per international law).

I personally affirm unity - RIP Cross?(I think Cross was release, if so then sorry for forgetting the other sad fellow that was killed and shoved into the trunk to a car (thugs that killed him suck, and have no love for) - but Trudeux violated the Rule of Law when when he ordered his henchman to kill the top Quebec Seperatist leader to be assassinated,

and he was.


SO not only Americans ignore and assassinate others.......................all other nations to so too!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - in full violation of international law ;-(.