ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Dachshund
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by Dachshund » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:43 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:12 pm
Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:32 pm
I hereby declare that all socialists fall into one of FOUR categories: (1) IGNORANT or COGNITIVELY DEFICIENT (2) COSSETTED MIDDLE CLASS HYPOCRITES (3) LIARS and SCOUNDRELS working in the academy's non-STEM faculties (4) POLITICAL SCUM working for the state.

If anyone would like to dispute this, or my more general claim that SOCIALISM is PURE POISON, I would love to hear your argument/s
So, you make a bunch of lame-brain, lop-sided, delusional and childish declarations, and then you want people to give you thoughtful arguments? Fuck you!
Spoken like a true socialist.

How about you do something decent like apologise for the mass murder - the 120,000,000 innocents your political views butchered and tortured and starved to death during the last century? Germany officially apologises the world for the Nazi's holocaust every year without fail, but that's only an acknowledgement of 6,000,000 of the murders socialism perpetrated in the 20th century. You see, Hitler was not a fascist, the assumption that he was is incorrect. He was in his own words a "socialist" - a NATIONAL socialist.

So don't you think its about time you abandoned, -and then got down on your knees and humbly apologised for -, the deadly stupidity your evil political doctrine ? I do.

Dachshund (Der Uberweiner)

mickthinks
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by mickthinks » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:19 pm

I'm going to recycle a post I made, er ... yesterday
mickthinks wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:33 am
I'm going to recycle a post I made back in June
mickthinks wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:22 pm
I'm going to recycle a post I made back in '15
mickthinks wrote:
Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:35 am
WHY DO YOU SHOUT YOUR SUBJECT HEADING AT US IN UPPERCASE? IS IT BECAUSE YOU THINK YOUR TOPICS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OTHER PEOPLE'S AND NEED MORE ATTENTION?

Skepdick
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by Skepdick » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:44 pm

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:23 pm
A socialist an individual who believes that the state should own the means of production, and that all private ownership of property should be abolished.
By your very own definition socialism never existed.

There is no socialist nation in human history which abolished (or attempted to abolish) private property ownership.

Otherwise the capitalist state-monopoly would have no customers to sell any of its products to...

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Lacewing
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by Lacewing » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:14 am

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:43 pm
So don't you think its about time you abandoned, -and then got down on your knees and humbly apologised for -, the deadly stupidity your evil political doctrine ? I do.
As usual, you're projecting your crazy crap onto others. So convinced of the insanity in your head. Why don't you apologize for being such an ignorant hate-spewing asshole?

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henry quirk
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Skep

Post by henry quirk » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:24 am

"There is no socialist nation in human history which abolished (or attempted to abolish) private property ownership."

As I say up-thread...

A real, by-the-book socialism/communism has never existed and never will exist (except on the very small, local scale). Human beings aren't built for it, and it's gonna take a whole helluva lot of social (and, probably, neurological) engineering to get the bulk of men to willingly accept such a thing large-scale & long-term.

No, the only real experience we have is with state socialism/communism, and it's pretty clear how that works out.

One of the hallmarks of the state communism/socilaism is control of the means of production. Control by way of regulations that hem the owner in (do it or face strict penality) or control by way of installin' an agent of the Politburo as commissar (do it or get shot [or, mebbe, if we're feelin' generous, we'll just send you to the gulag]).

Glorious thing, ain't it? The commie lets you keep your shit while tellin' you what you can & can't do with it (and you get to pay him, the commie, for the privilige).

Right now, in Congress, we got two dinks (one runnin' for president) who advocate for the regulatory path. Assuming they get their way, discovering that mere & severe regulation just ain't enough, they'll move quickly to gulags and firing squads.

Dachshund
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by Dachshund » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:25 am

mickthinks wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:19 pm
I'm going to recycle a post I made, er ... yesterday
mickthinks wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:33 am
I'm going to recycle a post I made back in June
mickthinks wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:22 pm
I'm going to recycle a post I made back in '15

Fuck off, cretin.

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Lacewing
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Re: Try to stick with the point, Henry

Post by Lacewing » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:37 am

henry quirk wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:59 pm
"You don't think it's possible to feel love for all of life(?)"

No, I don't think it's possible.
But YOU ARE THE ONE who just referred to me as "the lover of all mankind", Henry. So I simply responded to your statement with a reasonable question as to whether a person can be "that way" and STILL say "fuck you" when someone is being an asshole or idiot. You know the answer is YES, a person can feel and do BOTH! But in your typical dishonest and cowardly side-stepping way, you try to change the focus down to some piddly out-of-context fragment, when it's pointed out that your statements are shallow and inaccurate.

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henry quirk
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Lace

Post by henry quirk » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:42 am

Yes, of course.

Scott Mayers
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by Scott Mayers » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:23 am

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:22 pm
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:07 pm
Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:23 pm


A socialist an individual who believes that the state should own the means of production.
No, technically, "Communism" is the word referring to ownership. The concept of 'socialism' relates to whether management of a government should or should not act to make laws that regard setting up systems of social supports of individuals regardless of ownership and often in light of the unfairness of those who DO OWN to prefer to act as PRIVATE GOVERNMENTS unaccountable to the people for their welfare. The conservative mindset is to believe that they have some intrinsic 'right' to the Earth by fiat of CLAIM of what is one's own by some force of Nature (usually via some god) to favor them uniquely.

What you figure a government should do is to act as the MEDIUM OF those who OWN uniquely by serving only to protect the presumed 'right' of claims of what is one's own. You don't like laws that LIMIT your means to use the power of inheritance, limits upon HOW much you own, nor laws that demand you treat others fairly BY whatever power you hold over others. That is, you want the benefits of the power you hold over people but without the liabilities Of those same people. So you are against laws that force tax dollars go towards the general health and well-being of people based upon differences of ownership. Conservatives DO favor the kinds of 'socialism' that forces blind obedience and respect of those who 'own'. They favor a transfer of the socialism to be run by voluntary organizations, like churches, as any burden or cost associated with advancing one's power are the fiscal liabilities to ownership capitalizing (opportunities of exploiting people's differences of power regardless of fairness).



(I have more to say but have to go for now. Later)Governments have to serve ALL people, not just those with established power of ownership. Ownership itself is a privilege that can't ignore the very people as a whole to permit you that as some right.
NO ! Incorrect ! "Communism" was the quasi-religious, "eschatological" term Karl Marx coined (no one else) to describe the utopic society that would, he firmly believed, follow the socialist society ( the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat") at the end of history. For Marx, Communism and Socialism were entirely different "balls of wax".

As for the rest of your slippery leftist hogswash I will deal with it tomorrow.


Dachshund (Der Uberweiner)
The opposing concepts about ownership is "Communism" versus "Capitalism". Regardless of the various definition sources of "socialism", this concept describes any ideal of a party that believes the government's function is to provide laws that aim to direct society to favor EACH member of society in some class. Thus, Communist government favors the whole the class. For a "National Socialist" type, as those who believe in formulating a very particular society for a subset of the whole, "the Nationalist" [For WWII Germany's Nazis, the Class is ONLY the 'Native or Aboriginal' of German blood.]

In today's society, "socialism" is about setting up essential services for all when in government. This entails ownership of essential things like public roads and waterways, education systems, utility companies and communication infrastructure BY THE PEOPLE. The essentials if or when 'owned' by select subsets of people,in contrast, where profit (or power through it) is their private motive first and foremost, makes those who 'own' them have an absurd power to exploit others, especially where these become monopolized. The compassion of the strict capitalist is SELFISH and thus not something relevant to the interest of a management system for all (a 'government'). In other words, the means of the strict capitalist is to OPTIMIZE their OWN, regardless of its effects upon those that are NOT theirs.

And please don't mistaken me for some type you have in mind of the socialist. I am arguing here without bias for nor against, even where I may share certain socialist leaning preferences. I think politics is somewhat fucked because it cannot ideally work in any system where values are involved in making laws. There is always bias. BUT when I hear from those like yourself act with your own apparent disgust of the "socialist", I am only able to interpret you as having some STRONG SELFISH interest to make government itself to be 'privately' of your own. That's dictatorial. Note that Communism fails for the nature of this to creep in. Marx only proposed it because he couldn't determine how you could get to the ideal 'communist' society. It is ironic that both (or all?) extremes share certain common behaviors when in practice. Note that both the National Socialist and the Communists were derived from idealizing a society with NO GOVERNMENT! Their means of getting to this anarchy and how they imagine people to become may differ, but their intents were to mean well (at least for those they thought were worthy of love, of course.)

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henry quirk
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Dachshund

Post by henry quirk » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:59 am

Scott wrote to you: "BUT when I hear from those like yourself act with your own apparent disgust of the "socialist", I am only able to interpret you as having some STRONG SELFISH interest to make government itself to be 'privately' of your own."

I suspect, like me, you want gov to be minimal, narrow, and under heel, yeah?

Age
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by Age » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:59 am

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:23 pm
Age wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:08 pm
Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:32 pm
Dear Forum Members,


I hereby declare that all socialists fall into one of FOUR categories: (1) IGNORANT or COGNITIVELY DEFICIENT (2) COSSETTED MIDDLE CLASS HYPOCRITES (3) LIARS and SCOUNDRELS working in the academy's non-STEM faculties (4) POLITICAL SCUM working for the state.

If anyone would like to dispute this, or my more general claim that SOCIALISM is PURE POISON, I would love to hear your argument/s



Kindest Regards


Dachshund (Der Uberweiner)
How are you defining 'socialist' here?
A socialist an individual who believes that the state should own the means of production, and that all private ownership of property should be abolished. Socialists also advocate equity (equality of OUTCOME as an end that must be pursued from equality of opportunity)
Thank you, this helps in explaining where the distorted thinking is coming from.

1. If an individual believes some thing, then they are not fully open to learning what is actually true and right.

2. What is wrong with 'equality of OUTCOME' and why is the word 'outcome' in capitals?

Age
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by Age » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:21 am

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:02 pm
Kayla wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:53 pm
Age wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:08 pm
How are you defining 'socialist' here?
wrong question

when a dog barks do you ask it to define 'woof'?

basically in this context 'socialism' means 'argghh! me no like! me angry!'
On a personal note, yes, socialism and its proponents do make me VERY angry. "Me noey likey" a political ideology that murders and degrades the human beings who are forced or deceived into living under it.

Dachshund (Der Uberweiner)
Do you think, whoever came up with and had the idea of human beings living socially as one, and in a community as one, had the concept of "murdering and degrading" some human beings in their thinking?

Is it written in any of the original ideas of living socially and/or communally that some human beings should be "murdered and/or degraded" or "forced and/or decieved" to live in a society or commune of equality where the outcome is equal for all?

If yes to either or both of these questions, then they are obviously are NOT True social nor communal ideologies at all.

If any idea does not produce and form absolute equality for ALL, where the outcome is equal for ALL, absolutely equally, then those ideas are just another form of capitalism, or in other words 'just greed'.

If an individual believes capitalism/greed is the better idea, then they obviously will do all they can to argue for that, while declaring any other "political" idea is just plain wrong, crazy, or even poison.

I Like Sushu
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by I Like Sushu » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:46 am

Age -

Sausage Dog has a habit of using bombastic rhetoric in order to flush out the leftist extremes. There are a fair number of such types in these kinds of forums - mostly due to naivety/ignorance rather than indoctrinated radicals.

The simple fact that Sausage Dog hasn’t been banned/silenced is a good sign that there aren’t many ‘extreme leftist’ types here. I say this because Sausage Dog is a self professed old fashioned, right leaning conservative type (he knows his views are not the norm).

Age
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by Age » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:44 am

I Like Sushu wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:46 am
Age -

Sausage Dog has a habit of using bombastic rhetoric in order to flush out the leftist extremes. There are a fair number of such types in these kinds of forums - mostly due to naivety/ignorance rather than indoctrinated radicals.

The simple fact that Sausage Dog hasn’t been banned/silenced is a good sign that there aren’t many ‘extreme leftist’ types here. I say this because Sausage Dog is a self professed old fashioned, right leaning conservative type (he knows his views are not the norm).
Okay.

surreptitious57
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Re: ARE THERE ANY SOCIALISTS HERE ?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:19 am

Sausage Dog has not been banned because of his views but because of the lack of any moderation here
Such a non interventionist approach is good for the forum as it allows for a greater diversity of opinion

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