Neoliberalism is good (or at least ok).

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Neoliberalism is good (or at least ok).

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:29 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:00 am
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:21 am
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:34 pm

The term was hijacked in the 80s for that purpose. If we're against semantic abuses then we are surely opposed to that sort of behaviour.
No one gives a rat's arse what you think. You are out of date. And you are WRONG.
Well now I have to find a word for what I mean that hasn't been stolen by fatuous old wankers who for some reason need to point at fiscal conservatives like Maggie Thatcher but still thieve the word 'liberal' for no fucking reason.

What a quandry. Obviously Neo-Liberalism was originally a brand of Liberalism, those being literal times where words meant things, possibly to gentlemen. Neo-Liberalism eschewed components of the laissez-faire model of capitalism to be replaced with social safety nets and consumer protection. Nothing at all like Thatcher. That's the sort of Neo-Liberalism I am recommending, but I can't call it that because apparently this liberal term is better deployed in description of all the completely illeberal folks you like to wiggle your eyebrows at while you tut until your teeth fall out.

So the good form of neo-liberalism is obviously now classic-neo-liberalism, and thus its revival is neo-classic-neo-liberalism. Therefore when I use the word neoliberal, please read it as the shorthand form of neo-classic-neo-liberalism.

Should I wait a while so you can steal neo-classic-neo-liberalism and use it describe some other famous liberals like Pol Pot and Ghengis Khan? I can always add a few extra neos-and-some-more-classics if need be.
Liberal is liberal. Just the fact that they have stuck a 'neo' in front of it shows what a bunch of disingenuous wankers neoliberals are.

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Sculptor
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Re: Neoliberalism is good (or at least ok).

Post by Sculptor » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:05 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:33 am
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:25 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:34 pm


The 'improving economy' is an illusion. What does it even mean? That there are more multi-millionaires buzzing around?
In the last ten years (since austerity), the number of billionaires has increase three fold, at the same time thousands of lost their homes, many rely on food banks. We have a new category of working people "working poverty", more homelessness, zero hour contract increase, people with increasing less chance of ever having the prospect of owning their own homes.
This is what the Tories call progress.
Yet you want open-door immigration, which 'neoliberal' govts. love. They love it because it helps their Big Business buddies with cheap labour, which forces wages down for everyone.
Immigration is almost completely irrelevant.
It's a side-show distraction and scapegoating for morons so they have someone to blame all the ills of society.

Because of all the immigrants the waiting list in the NHS are standing at six months.
Get rid of all the immigrants and the waiting lists increase to 2 years.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Neoliberalism is good (or at least ok).

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:14 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:05 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:33 am
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:25 am


In the last ten years (since austerity), the number of billionaires has increase three fold, at the same time thousands of lost their homes, many rely on food banks. We have a new category of working people "working poverty", more homelessness, zero hour contract increase, people with increasing less chance of ever having the prospect of owning their own homes.
This is what the Tories call progress.
Yet you want open-door immigration, which 'neoliberal' govts. love. They love it because it helps their Big Business buddies with cheap labour, which forces wages down for everyone.
Immigration is almost completely irrelevant.
It's a side-show distraction and scapegoating for morons so they have someone to blame all the ills of society.

Because of all the immigrants the waiting list in the NHS are standing at six months.
Get rid of all the immigrants and the waiting lists increase to 2 years.
That might be true of your country, that has a habit of attacking other people's countries and making them unlivable. Arseholes leave it to the rest of us to pick up the pieces. I suppose you think the Ulster Plantations were a good thing and the Irish had nothing to complain about--after all, we are all 'just human' and 'there are no such things as culture and ethnicity'.
I don't know who the hell you are to call people 'racists and fascists' because they don't think adding millions more humans to their country is a good thing. Humans fuck up everything they touch, so how the fuck could more of them be a good thing? Why would I give a hoot about your NHS? It's the elderly who clog up waiting lists. Bring in euthanasia I say. Get rid of the old pests.

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Re: Neoliberalism is good (or at least ok).

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:14 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:14 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:05 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:33 am


Yet you want open-door immigration, which 'neoliberal' govts. love. They love it because it helps their Big Business buddies with cheap labour, which forces wages down for everyone.
Immigration is almost completely irrelevant.
It's a side-show distraction and scapegoating for morons so they have someone to blame all the ills of society.

Because of all the immigrants the waiting list in the NHS are standing at six months.
Get rid of all the immigrants and the waiting lists increase to 2 years.
That might be true of your country, that has a habit of attacking other people's countries and making them unlivable. Arseholes leave it to the rest of us to pick up the pieces. I suppose you think the Ulster Plantations were a good thing and the Irish had nothing to complain about--after all, we are all 'just human' and 'there are no such things as culture and ethnicity'.
I don't know who the hell you are to call people 'racists and fascists' because they don't think adding millions more humans to their country is a good thing. Humans fuck up everything they touch, so how the fuck could more of them be a good thing? Why would I give a hoot about your NHS? It's the elderly who clog up waiting lists. Bring in euthanasia I say. Get rid of the old pests.
The same is true in most Western countries. Immigration has been a net gain to the economy. The US relies on it heavily.
You are just being played like a cheap violin.

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henry quirk
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"Immigration has been a net gain to the economy."

Post by henry quirk » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:23 am

It can be if: folks who have sumthn' to contribute come to the front door & knock instead of sneakin' in through the bathroom window and then goin' on the dole. It's the sneaky leeches most folks object to

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Immanuel Can
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Re: "Immigration has been a net gain to the economy."

Post by Immanuel Can » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:34 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:23 am
It can be if: folks who have sumthn' to contribute come to the front door & knock instead of sneakin' in through the bathroom window and then goin' on the dole. It's the sneaky leeches most folks object to
The Democrats all used to campaign for a southern wall, in the days when the unions were important to them. Clinton did, Obama did...their speeches all on YouTube still.

The only reason they don't want any immigration control now is that they are trying to flood the country with new Democratic voters. For them, it's not about human rights. It's about using sentimental pleas to get more ballots in the box, so as to regain control of the country. That's why, in one administration, they've flipped a 180 and declared themselves the party of globalism and open immigration. But they don't care a fig about immigrants. We can be certain of that. If they did, they wouldn't live in gated neighbourhoods with good walls around them.

I really like Trump's idea: send all the illegal migrants to Democrat states. (Heck, send them to Nancy Pelosi's neighbourhood, for that matter. She can put up a few.) But when he suggested it, then boy, did they get hot under the collar. That's their hypocrisy manifested. They like immigrants as voters, not as neighbours.

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henry quirk
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Pretty much: anything Trump supports, they'll oppose...

Post by henry quirk » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:44 am

...simply cuz Trump supports it.

Trump could cure all cancer simply, cheaply, safely and they'd just shit on him for ruining part of the medical industry (then try to outlaw the cure).

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Re: Pretty much: anything Trump supports, they'll oppose...

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:59 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:44 am
...simply cuz Trump supports it.

Trump could cure all cancer simply, cheaply, safely and they'd just shit on him for ruining part of the medical industry (then try to outlaw the cure).
Trump could always try to tell cancer to go back where it came from like a black woman!

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Re: "Immigration has been a net gain to the economy."

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:03 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:34 am
I really like Trump's idea: send all the illegal migrants to Democrat states.
You're a stupid arse too, just like Trump.

I think we should banish all Christians to Jerusalem. The US is suppose to be secular. So why don't you go back where your hero came from? Piss off to Bethlehem. The IDF will probably find a nice cage for you to live in.

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henry quirk
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"Trump could always try to tell cancer to go back where it came from like a black woman!"

Post by henry quirk » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:43 am

Ya know: bein' a woman, black or in congress doesn't immunize one from being wrong-headed, mean-spirited, or just plain stupid.

And: bein' an immigrant doesn't automatically impart wisdom or nobility.

So: if one is an immigrant, a woman, black, and in congress, and one is wrong-headed, mean-spirtied, or just plain stupid (and damned ungrateful to top it all off), then mebbe one ought to carry one's keister back to where it came from.

And: Mannie ain't American (though, in spirit, he's a damned sight more American than any of the Squad of Four).

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Neoliberalism is good (or at least ok).

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:47 am

Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:14 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:14 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:05 pm

Immigration is almost completely irrelevant.
It's a side-show distraction and scapegoating for morons so they have someone to blame all the ills of society.

Because of all the immigrants the waiting list in the NHS are standing at six months.
Get rid of all the immigrants and the waiting lists increase to 2 years.
That might be true of your country, that has a habit of attacking other people's countries and making them unlivable. Arseholes leave it to the rest of us to pick up the pieces. I suppose you think the Ulster Plantations were a good thing and the Irish had nothing to complain about--after all, we are all 'just human' and 'there are no such things as culture and ethnicity'.
I don't know who the hell you are to call people 'racists and fascists' because they don't think adding millions more humans to their country is a good thing. Humans fuck up everything they touch, so how the fuck could more of them be a good thing? Why would I give a hoot about your NHS? It's the elderly who clog up waiting lists. Bring in euthanasia I say. Get rid of the old pests.
The same is true in most Western countries. Immigration has been a net gain to the economy. The US relies on it heavily.
You are just being played like a cheap violin.
It can also artificially raise the GDP. You are the one 'being played'. Who gives a flying fuck about 'growing economy' anyway? What does it even mean? What use is a 'growing economy' to the homeless and those living below the breadline?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: "Immigration has been a net gain to the economy."

Post by Immanuel Can » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:11 am

Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:03 am
I think we should banish all Christians to Jerusalem. The US is suppose to be secular.
Actually, it's not. Its constitution forbids congress from making "any statute abridging religious freedom," which means the government is to have no opinion about religion, and favour none in particular...not that there is to BE none. In fact, if the government were to legislate secularism, it would violate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

So what you're saying is pretty anti-American, actually.

But Jerusalem would be fine. I'll be visiting the US embassy in Jerusalem, if you want to look me up. :wink:

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Re: Neoliberalism is good (or at least ok).

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:34 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:47 am
Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:14 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:14 pm


That might be true of your country, that has a habit of attacking other people's countries and making them unlivable. Arseholes leave it to the rest of us to pick up the pieces. I suppose you think the Ulster Plantations were a good thing and the Irish had nothing to complain about--after all, we are all 'just human' and 'there are no such things as culture and ethnicity'.
I don't know who the hell you are to call people 'racists and fascists' because they don't think adding millions more humans to their country is a good thing. Humans fuck up everything they touch, so how the fuck could more of them be a good thing? Why would I give a hoot about your NHS? It's the elderly who clog up waiting lists. Bring in euthanasia I say. Get rid of the old pests.
The same is true in most Western countries. Immigration has been a net gain to the economy. The US relies on it heavily.
You are just being played like a cheap violin.
It can also artificially raise the GDP. You are the one 'being played'. Who gives a flying fuck about 'growing economy' anyway? What does it even mean? What use is a 'growing economy' to the homeless and those living below the breadline?
The number of immigrants does not relate to homelessness. There are thousands of empty properties all over the US and the UK. Far more than would be necessary to home every one. Let that sink in.

What is at fault is the system of neoliberal economics that has forced house prices and rents up well beyond reasonable limits.

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Sculptor
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Re: "Immigration has been a net gain to the economy."

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:11 am
Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:03 am
I think we should banish all Christians to Jerusalem. The US is suppose to be secular.
Actually, it's not. Its constitution forbids congress from making "any statute abridging religious freedom," which means the government is to have no opinion about religion, and favour none in particular...not that there is to BE none.
That is almost exactly the definition of secularism, fool.

In fact, if the government were to legislate secularism, it would violate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

So what you're saying is pretty anti-American, actually.
There is no one more anti-christian and anti-american on this forum than yourself.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: "Immigration has been a net gain to the economy."

Post by Immanuel Can » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:28 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:36 pm
That is almost exactly the definition of secularism...
You're not arguing for mere neutrality in regard to religion, but the deliberate weeding out of it all. That's the opposite of "non-abridgement."

It's authoritarian, and necessarily violent as well. You're calling for forcible secularization, not mere official secularity.

That option is not American.

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