MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

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Dachshund
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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by Dachshund » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:30 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:50 am


They aren't immigrants twat they are refugees caused by us pissing about in the ME because of Oil which has been going on since the second world war when we broke our promises to the Arabs. The latest fubar is down to the fuckwittery of right-wing twats such as yourself arming and funding the Mujahedeen whilst playing Cold-War games with the Soviets and has morphed into such things as Al Queda and ISIS thanks to once again the Yank funding and training the loons for their National Interest, personally I think it's down to Americas incessant need to have an external enemy to keep their nation together as their internal contradictions would split them up, that and that their industrial/military combine needs one to keep the dollars rolling in. You want to stop Muslims from coming, stop bombing them back to the stone-age!!

Dear Tosspot,


The Cold War wasn't a "game": The Berlin Wall, The Cuban Missile Crisis, Korea, Vietnam, Czechoslovakia, Cambodia, Angola, Afghanistan and the list goes on, I don't see the funny side of that shit, I'm afraid. What I see is lots of terror and death. And I blame the Soviet Union. After the USSR collapsed, A pile of documents were discovered by researchers in the Kremlin's archives, confirming that the Soviet's grand mission had been to aggressively export armed Marxist revolution and insurgency around the world (Africa, Latin America, Indochina, Cuba, etc) with the ultimate aim of achieving complete global domination. So the notion that the Reds wanted to create a communist world, and were actively working to realise this, wasn't just some, wacky, paranoid right-wing theory.


I don't know about you, but the thought of living in a Marxist-style communist state has never really filled me with joy. There is only one fitting word to describe the 20th century's communist regimes, and that word is "evil". And, moreover, there is only one way to deal with evil, that it to fight it all the way down. You never fuck around with evil when its in your face, if you do, you're dead ,or at least, you'll wish you were. Ronald Reagan understood that, and we have him to thank in large part for the fall of "The Evil Empire" which was precipitated in large part by what you eloquently refer to as (quote) "...the fuckwittery of ring-wing twats such as yourself arming and funding the Mujahideen whilst playing Cold War games with the Soviets..." I presume you are referring to America's intervention in the Afghan-Soviet war, but it seems your perspective on that conflict is rather muddled. I would say it's likely due to your indoctrination with (Marxist) Postmodernist anti-Western rhetoric at some left-leaning University's social science/humanities/political science/liberal arts/philosophy department in your youth. If so, never mind, you're not to blame, merely an innocent. victim. And I'm happy to set you straight...


Strictly speaking, the story began with Jimmy Carter in 1979, but the real action in Afghanistan took place after 1980 when Ronald Reagan was elected US President. Reagan formulated what he called "The Reagan Doctrine", its strategy was to overwhelm the global influence of the Soviet Union in a bid to end the Cold War. Under the "The Reagan Doctrine", the US provided overt and covert aid to anti-communist guerrillas and resistance movements in order to roll-back Soviet-backed governments in Africa, Asia, Latin America and so on.


When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, the US deployed "Operation Cyclone"; this was the code name for a covert CIA program to arm and finance the Mujahideen in Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989 during the military invasion of the country by the USSR in order to support the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. Reagan progressively expanded the program when he took office in 1980, assigning specially trained CIA paramilitary officers to equip the Afghan Mujahideen forces against the Soviet army. The CIA strategy was to use a broad range of weapons, tactics, logistics and training programs to boost the rebels' ability to fight a guerrilla war against the Red Army.


The turning point in the war came in 1986 when the US supplied the Mujahideen with 300 American-built FIM-92 "Stinger" missiles. The "Stingers" had a deadly effect on Soviet landing and attack helicopters as well as transport aircraft and jets, enabling the lightly armed Mujahideen to undercut the Soviet's air capabilities. Given their success, over the following 12 months, the Americans supplied the Mujahideen with some 3,000 or so "Stingers" and these missiles changed the course of the war. Within two years of the first "Stinger" strike, the Red Army had begun to pull out of Afghanistan in February 1989, after 10 tears of invasion. There were a number of factors that led to the Soviet withdrawal, including a crumbling economy, budgetary issues and a political distaste for the war at home. But what really stopped it was the futility on their side. With the arrival of the "Stinger" missiles, the Soviets were only controlling the major towns. They lost most of the countryside.


In short, the Americans defeated defeated the Soviets in Afghanistan - that's the bottom line, that's all that mattered. Operation Cyclone had been a success (the CIA had "Won it for the Gipper" :D ); and having achieved their objective Americans got out. Just 10 months after the Red Army withdrew from Afghanistan early in 1989, the Berlin Wall fell on the 4th of December. I remember weeping tears of joy - I'm not too big a man to admit it - when the news came down the wire. At long, long last "The Evil Empire" had finally been defeated. That was a great night. In 1990 I visited to Berlin and got my own chunk of graffiti mottled Berlin Wall cement; I keep it displayed in my living room to this day to remind of the reality of evil and how it must be dealt with.


By the way, the allegation that Osama bin Laden' and Al Quaeda were beneficiaries of CIA assistance is a tired old conspiracy theory that brain-dead socialists and pimply college student studying political science will still endorse. The fact is that declassified CIA records and interviews do not support these claims. They are invariably advanced as axiomatic with no supporting evidence (please supply such evidence if you believe you have it).


On a more concessional note, I think it is fair to say that U.S.?Western foreign policy did, to some extent, influence the rise of Islamic terrorist organisations like al-Quaeda and ISIS, but it is incorrect to say that it bears sole responsibility for the creation of these groups and the havoc they have wrought. The tentacles of ISIS, for instance, extend back to the early 1990's in Jordan, much earlier than the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. Other Islamic extremist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood date back to the 1920's in Egypt.


The idea that Americans created or somehow contributed to the creation of ISIS is just not true.When tracking ISIS, it is interesting to note how their enemies change. In the 1990's it was dictatorial regimes. When the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003, it became jihad against the America and thus they embraced al-Quaeda in Iraq. When the Syrian conflict opened up, they established a franchise of fighters there.


What you need to bear in mind is that ISIS were driven by a powerful totalitarian political ideology that sought to shape the world within a 7th century Islamic framework , and this was, in itself a potent force independent of American meddling.


While it's true that the American presence in the Middle East in the early 2000's did facilitate ISIS recruitment and propaganda, largely because the coalition pulled out without successfully helping to rebuild Iraq. The fact is that in the years after, locals were just as angry at their own communities ineptitude and failings to reconstruct their country in the years after 2003.


I think that the US/West should only engage themselves in the affairs of the Islamic world when it is absolutely essential in respect of justifiable and serious direct threats to their nation/s. For example the America's arming and funding of the Afghan Mujahideen played an important role in the fall of the Soviet Union, thus ending the Cold War; a blessing not just for America and the West, but the entire world. Similarly the US was left with no option but to fight first Gulf War in Iraq after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. The issue for America here was largely oil. Saddam's intention was to monopolise the oil market and had he been allowed to do this ,America's supply of affordable oil would almost certainly have been jeopardised. For an advanced industrial society like the US, oil is literally like blood. If it is unable to buy reasonably priced crude oil in the quantities it needs then people - lots of people - will die as a result. So, again, this American invasion in the Middle East was fully justified. As for the coalition invasion of Iraq in 2003, the legitimacy of this military intervention by the West is still difficult (IMO) to clearly assess. It is a complex, multifaceted issue, so I will not endeavour to discuss it here as I lack the time to set out a comprehensive personal analysis.


Finally, with the exception of the kind of circumstances I have mentioned above, in my view the West would be wise not to intervene militarily in any conflicts or crises that arise in Muslim-majority Islamic nations. Islam is an evil and violent religion/totalitarian political ideology. If Muslims wish to conduct themselves like uncivilised, medieval barbarians, THEN LET THEM - it is not an issue the West can or should try to remedy. If they wish to practice Sharia law and mutilate, maim, behead, thrash, oppress, abuse, rape and stone each other to death, THEN LET THEM. If they wish to annihilate each other in brutal, tribal warfare, THEN LET THEM. The West should not be duped into the fray. Though should there ever be, in the future, another planned or actual major attack/invasion by an Islamic nation against the US or any of its Western allies, then West should immediately annihilate the aggressor; and if that means nuclear strikes, then so be it.


Kindest Regards


Dachshund

gaffo
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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by gaffo » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:46 pm

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:28 pm
Could someone with more knowledge of the American legal system than I have please explain to me how it is that several Muslim Senators have recently been elected to the House ?

1965 Civil Right Act, and popular vote for a person that is also muslim to represent then.

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:28 pm
I don't geddit ?
not surprised.

gaffo
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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by gaffo » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:58 pm

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:53 pm
The problem I have with Muslims is that they believe Islam is the only true religion.

like all Christians do?

yes I concur that is not a good mindset.

Christianity is no more true than Islam.

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:53 pm
They believe that all other religions are false.
like Christians do?

yes i concur.

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:53 pm
I am saddened to hear that America now has Muslims in Congress.

If this bothers so much, i suggest you start a grassroots movement to repeal the 1965 Civil Rights Act them.

then you can make i legal to deny office to any muslims/jews/black/etc.......

Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:53 pm
They have already made anti-semitic statements

Arabs are Semites Bubba.


Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:53 pm
They took their oath of office on the Koran, not the Bible.
yes, and Christian politicians made it upon the latter book.

your problem is?



Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:53 pm
This means that their loyalty is to the god of Islam, Allah, and not to the God of the Bible.
Allah is YHWH (so the same God), no Jew would claim Jesus is YHWH.

Christian politicians have their loyality to Christ as God, that is problem for me - not you - why not?



Dachshund wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:53 pm
I know that there can be no religious test for the holding of political office in the U.S.,
you do know? i don't see that you do.

gaffo
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Re: Imp

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:00 am

henry quirk wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:27 pm
"actual subversion? like becoming a socialist utopia?"

Yep. Theocracy, utopia: the price for either is 'me' and 'you'.

#

"ballot box? no my friend... you know that's why we have the second..."

Absolutely. But the ballot box comes first and the guns come last. That is: we react peaceably till 'peace' is no longer an option.
correct

gaffo
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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:02 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:08 pm
would you also ban Jews from your Congress?
yes he would.

gaffo
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Re: Imp

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:03 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:35 am
henry quirk wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:27 pm
"actual subversion? like becoming a socialist utopia?"

Yep. Theocracy, utopia: the price for either is 'me' and 'you'.

#

"ballot box? no my friend... you know that's why we have the second..."

Absolutely. But the ballot box comes first and the guns come last. That is: we react peaceably till 'peace' is no longer an option.
This is so funny! The only people in America who will overthrow your democracy will be the far right and your second will just be gun-toting militias killing and terrorising citizens who don't agree with them.
??? not follow, welcome clarification.

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Re: A_uk

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:10 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:44 am
"The only people in America who will overthrow your democracy will be the far right and your second will just be gun-toting militias killing and terrorising citizens who don't agree with them."

1-America is not a democracy. America is a constitutionsl republic.

2-The only folks currently lookin' to dis-embed America from its foundation are on the 'Left'.

So: 1 + 2 = you, not knowin' squat.
per:
1. no, it is a Democratic Republic - a Republic mostly, but State Referendum are Democratic via vote of the people. and so you are wrong Sir on #1. that is why is legal to smoke weed in Co and Ca and 13? other states now - i hate weed myself, makes me dumb and paranoid (i like the visuals, but the mindset offsets the visuals so no like it - others may, that fine by me - and 15 states VIA REFORENDUM mades it legal - not per you (we are a Republic only bullshit statement - none of the 15 state legiatures made weed legal - the PEOPLE via those states in a Democratic vote did! -so educate yourself before you proclaim the political nature of our Nation).

2. nope - both side from the extremes are twats looking to destroy our Republic, and the far right know how to use guns unlike the ANTIFA nitwits.

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Re: A_uk

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:16 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:44 am

So: 1 + 2 = you, not knowin' squat.
i suspect Foghorn may know more than you concerning the political constuction of our Nation, and he is an Englishman!

you showed your ignorance in not affirming the existence of State Reforenda.

gaffo
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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:21 am

Kayla wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:18 pm
you can use more or less the same arguments to argue that the Jews worship a different god from the christians
actually they (chrsitians) do.

they worship Jebus as God.

Jews and Muslim worship the same God - AllHa, Yhah, Allah, Yhwh.

gaffo
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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:31 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:50 am
, Christians and Muslims are all Children of The Book but what makes the difference is that the Jews don't think Christ was the Messiah nor the son of 'God', the Christians do and the Muslims think him just a prophet with Muhammad the last prophet before the coming of the Caliph and the instigation of Islam upon the Earth when Jesus will also return, although the Christians of course don't believe this
you seem to have understanding of Islam, have you read the Koran? i have some of it (lost interest 1/3 through - repetative) - it is a repetetive (a poem actually - no i don't konw Arabic - read the Penguin eng translation) - but it is repetitive - its theme would fit in 100 pages instead of 600/etc.

concur fully BTW.

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:50 am
and I have no idea what the Jews think about this matter.

though theologically Judaism and Islam is identical and they both worship the same God, only the Muslims affirm the Torah as a work from god, the Jews rejects (nearly all - of course i'm sure there are open minded orthodox jew out there that may affirm the Koran as also a work by their God - just none that i know of) the koran soly because it was written after the Torah was codified/sealed as the final testament from God.

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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:37 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:50 am

Apparently the Mormons didn't get your message or do they believe in a different 'God' as well? Boy there seem to be a lot of these theist 'God's' about. :lol:

there is only one God Foghorn!!!!!

Heil Zeus!!!!!!!

he saves the believer, i hope with full heart you will come and know our lord Zeus with all your soul, and so become saved by his grace, i have.

gaffo
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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:48 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:50 am
The latest fubar is down to the fuckwittery of right-wing twats such as yourself arming and funding the Mujahedeen whilst playing Cold-War games with the Soviets and has morphed into such things as Al Queda and ISIS thanks to once again the Yank funding and training the loons for their National Interest
Soviet Union was a clear danger which i think you would agree.

i supported our funding of bin Laden/company in driving out the soviet thugs from Afghanistian (their aim was Pakistan/warm water port - Karchi - of course thier plans were grandous (japs taking Australia anyone) - but then you have power you gain hubris.

Bin Laden surves us well. i have no beef with support him at that time.

later? well blowback is a bitch, and one can never know of it until it happens (usually - except the illegal Iranam war - where any fool could see and i was opposed to from the start, and which removed the balences of power bet Iran and Iraq and gave us ISIS/etc.)

shrub is a lier (no WMD- and of course he know there was none - and Cheney/Wolky/Pearl were the real authors of that "war"), and a fool.

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Gaffo

Post by henry quirk » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:54 am

If you research it, you'll find reference to America as a constitutional republic, a democratic constitutional republic, a federal republic, and a constitutional representative democracy.

What you won't find in any reputable descrption is 'America is a democracy' cuz it's not.

A_uk asserted the U.S. was a democracy; I corrected him.

Absolutely, democratic process is the constitutionally mandated means by which we select reps and pass referendums, but any vote, all votes, by the people or the people's reps occur within the narrow allowances of the constitution.

Simply: in a democracy, the majority can vote to prohibit ugly, scrawny, poorly-dressed, mean-spirited bastids like me from enjoying the public sphere; in a constitutional republic, democratic constitutional republic, federal republic, or constitutional representative democracy like the U.S., they can't.

...and...

Again: the rightist blowhard minority is well overshadowed by an increasingly millitant leftist majority lookin' to rip the U.S. right up from its bedrock.

Simple example: it ain't anyone on the right (blowhard or not) lookin' to toss the electoral college. And it ain't anyone on the right (blowhard or not) lookin' to circumvent the electoral college by way of unconstitutional state action.

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Gaffo

Post by henry quirk » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:01 am

"you showed your ignorance in not affirming the existence of State Reforenda."

No, I just didn't, and still don't, see the need to write an essay on a subject few here give a rat's ass about.

This is a British site, populated mostly by non-Americans. These folks, for the most part, don't wanna talk about America 'cept when blaming it for sumthin'.

gaffo
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Re: MUSLIM SENATORS IN THE US...WTF !

Post by gaffo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:04 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:50 am
Personally I think the biggest fuck-up we made in this country was when both the left and the right imported that abomination of a contradiction of terms 'Multiculturalism' from the Yank, as they believed the bollocks that America was a melting-pot when it was far from being anything of the sort.

OMG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tell me more on this matter please, i'd like to understand per the brit view from their homeland.

I HATE PC!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (it just yugoslavian balkanism!)

America was moving forward to Social justice/equity from the Civil Right era of the 60's to around 1990, then his PC bullshit took over!!

and the melting pot was fogotten!!!!!

so forget "we are all the same" - instead we get this fixation on difference, "proud black/gay/etc" and ignoring the more important thing "we the same" mentality.


this is why i'm a "lost 70's era Democrat" - partiless now for 30 yrs - self identify with Libertarlans (the liberal wing of that small party), and the Green Party.


I have problems with both small parties though. Libertarians social and US constitution views i align with but not econimic view, my problem with Greens is that they have a good understanding of global contracts (teaties/the UN/international law), just shit on my Constitution, nor do they value local constructions (do not value State constitutions/regional rule of local matters per rule off law locally).


so i remain in island politically since the 80's - when my party the Democrats - left me with their identity politics/PC garbage.


Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:50 am
It stopped the conversation in the 70's about what it was to be British dead in it's tracks and we're still stuck in the same old rut with twats like you now spouting the same old tired guff and we're doing it again with this new Yank-speak 'Progressive' when we have had a perfectly good term for a very long-time - Liberal.
tell me more about what happened and is happening over there Sir!

god yes! fk "progressive"....sometime around 2000 or so Liberals caved due to Rush limpballs defaming "Liberals", so the pussies most libs are rebranded themselves over here as "progressive" (which to me = PC cultists as far as i can tell).

as for me I was a Liberal in the 70's the 80's and today - fukc Progressive, i'm not a progresive, i'm a Liberal dammit!

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