socialism/capitalism

How should society be organised, if at all?

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FlashDangerpants
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Re:

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon May 06, 2019 12:01 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:39 pm
Flash,

"What am I not getting here?"

Perhaps I read into the piece that which isn't there. What I get is: a generation, as it basks in the benefits of capitalism (even the adulterated state-directed monster we have now) rails against capitalism and looks to socialism (of a kind), a 'system' that surely will deprive them of those benefits they take for granted.
Ok, I got that too. To an extent it's the valid part of her post. Many of those decadent whines about capitalism annoy me as well.

Until capitalism made it profitable to invest in machines to replace human labour, 90% of our ancestors worked on farms and it was impossible to have a career as web designer at all, so I don't really enjoy listening to web designers who think capitalism never did them any favours, let them spend a season digging up potatoes with rough wooden tools and they can come back to me about that shit and maybe get an actual audience.

But you think everything is commie. And I live in what you consider a commie country, pretty much with the system they are after. But I drink coffee and own too many ipads and basically have all the pointless comforts they do (except I live in London so don't even know how to drive a car - I couldn't tell you which pedal is the one for 'go'). So I don't think that acquiring single payer healthcare, and 5 weeks paid vacation, paid maternity leave and so on actually results in people losing out quite as much as you are implying.
henry quirk wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:39 pm
"If the extremely simple macroeconomics I referenced there is actually beyond you"
"you might not really count as an Austrian"

Well, I favor unrestrained markets, gold, government as final arbiter of contract and nuthin' more, no one is too big to fail, savings, investment, pure & raw supply and demand.
Maybe you can be an honorary Austrian then. Gold though? Really?

Impenitent
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Re: socialism/capitalism

Post by Impenitent » Mon May 06, 2019 12:39 am

can you imagine the level of utopia if the citizens of Venezuela were armed?

that is why the leftists in America are frustrated

you say you want a revolution? well you know, dead leftists everywhere

but don't worry, history never repeats.

-Imp

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon May 06, 2019 1:23 am

Flash,

"But you think everything is commie."

You're right. It's one of my many failing. If it falls outside of the extremely minimal night watchman model I favor, it's communism/communitarianism. To say otherwise would make me a damned liar.

#

"And I live in what you consider a commie country, pretty much with the system they are after."


You're a Brit, yeah?

#

But I drink coffee and own too many ipads and basically have all the pointless comforts they do (except I live in London so don't even know how to drive a car - I couldn't tell you which pedal is the one for 'go')."

Brit then. Yeah, I think you folks are well down the road. You can't even assert sovereignty without your employees dancin' hard and fast to deny it to you. We're not nearly so far gone as you, but we're workin' hard to catch up.

#

"So I don't think that acquiring single payer healthcare, and 5 weeks paid vacation, paid maternity leave and so on actually results in people losing out quite as much as you are implying."

Well, what body loses, in my view, like 'mind' or ' self' or 'autonomy' or liberty or soul, isn't exactly measurable. Some people, mebbe many, mebbe most, don't mind it bein' gone. For me: It's like Lucifer said 'better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven'.

#

"Gold though? Really?"

Absolutely. Guns & gold (or energy).

##

Imp,

"can you imagine the level of utopia if the citizens of Venezuela were armed?"

Maduro would (probably) be dead and Venezuela would be warring with itself to determine which direction to take. People bein' what they are: it probably wouldn't be in a direction I'd like, but who knows?

FlashDangerpants
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Re:

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon May 06, 2019 2:11 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:23 am
"So I don't think that acquiring single payer healthcare, and 5 weeks paid vacation, paid maternity leave and so on actually results in people losing out quite as much as you are implying."

Well, what body loses, in my view, like 'mind' or ' self' or 'autonomy' or liberty or soul, isn't exactly measurable. Some people, mebbe many, mebbe most, don't mind it bein' gone. For me: It's like Lucifer said 'better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven'.
Well I guess that's all a little bit too spiritual to be measured, so there's no tools we can use to crack it open and see if it's true or false.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon May 06, 2019 2:45 pm

"Well I guess that's all a little bit too spiritual to be measured, so there's no tools we can use to crack it open and see if it's true or false."

Yeah. I wouldn't call it 'spiritual', but yeah.

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