Why is nazism popular today?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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gaffo
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by gaffo » Wed May 08, 2019 4:19 am

Dubious wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:15 am
gaffo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:21 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:15 am
Found the Goethe quote: “Beauty is a manifestation of secret natural laws, which otherwise would have been hidden from us forever.”
I found the quote prior, to be honest i think the quote is gobly-gook.

disagree with it, though not dissparaging Goathe. i know nothing about him, just think that quote is crap myself.

the man was a genius and hopefully offer more to our culture than that quote.
Goethe always had too high an opinion of himself thinking that whatever he said had to be profound because he said it. I noticed that a lot of "Goethes Gespräche mit Eckermann", are extremely trite. No-longer does he have the reputation he once had even in Germany. He also wrote too many poems, many of them trivial, though, must admit, there are some great ones among them.

thanks for reply, nothing against poetry, if he was a good poet great!.........just not my thing - lol.

thanks for reply Sir!

full disscloser (sp - lol-ugh...i hate letters!) if i were not cursed with dyslexia i would probably like poetry ;-/.

Belinda
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Belinda » Wed May 08, 2019 10:52 am

The idea is that beauty is an indicator of truth and goodness . Beauty indicates the presence also of truth and goodness. This theme is common to all the Romantic poets and some others including Solzhenitzin.
Physical attractiveness is measured by fashion trends and cultural norms and of itself is not beauty.

Hitler Nazis are notorious for elevating a certain set of physical traits over beauty of character and reputation. While physical traits are a necessary component of beauty physical traits are in themselves not sufficient for beauty. Charisma is superficial charm and counts for nothing compared with beauty.

But a work of art bears within itself its own verification: conceptions which are devised or stretched do not stand being portrayed in images, they all come crashing down, appear sickly and pale, convince no one. But those works of art which have scooped up the truth and presented it to us as a living force – they take hold of us, compel us, and nobody ever, not even in ages to come, will appear to refute them.

So perhaps that ancient trinity of Truth, Goodness and Beauty is not simply an empty, faded formula as we thought in the days of our self-confident, materialistic youth? If the tops of these three trees converge, as the scholars maintained, but the too blatant, too direct stems of Truth and Goodness are crushed, cut down, not allowed through – then perhaps the fantastic, unpredictable, unexpected stems of Beauty will push through and soar TO THAT VERY SAME PLACE, and in so doing will fulfil the work of all three?

In that case Dostoevsky’s remark, “Beauty will save the world”, was not a careless phrase but a prophecy? After all HE was granted to see much, a man of fantastic illumination.

And in that case art, literature might really be able to help the world today?


Solzhenitzin, Nobel prize speech

Dachshund
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Dachshund » Thu May 09, 2019 11:10 am

Belinda wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:52 am
The idea is that beauty is an indicator of truth and goodness . Beauty indicates the presence also of truth and goodness. This theme is common to all the Romantic poets and some others including Solzhenitzin.
Physical attractiveness is measured by fashion trends and cultural norms and of itself is not beauty.

Hitler Nazis are notorious for elevating a certain set of physical traits over beauty of character and reputation. While physical traits are a necessary component of beauty physical traits are in themselves not sufficient for beauty. Charisma is superficial charm and counts for nothing compared with beauty.

But a work of art bears within itself its own verification: conceptions which are devised or stretched do not stand being portrayed in images, they all come crashing down, appear sickly and pale, convince no one. But those works of art which have scooped up the truth and presented it to us as a living force – they take hold of us, compel us, and nobody ever, not even in ages to come, will appear to refute them.

So perhaps that ancient trinity of Truth, Goodness and Beauty is not simply an empty, faded formula as we thought in the days of our self-confident, materialistic youth? If the tops of these three trees converge, as the scholars maintained, but the too blatant, too direct stems of Truth and Goodness are crushed, cut down, not allowed through – then perhaps the fantastic, unpredictable, unexpected stems of Beauty will push through and soar TO THAT VERY SAME PLACE, and in so doing will fulfil the work of all three?

In that case Dostoevsky’s remark, “Beauty will save the world”, was not a careless phrase but a prophecy? After all HE was granted to see much, a man of fantastic illumination.

And in that case art, literature might really be able to help the world today?


Solzhenitzin, Nobel prize speech
A swan is more beautiful than a turkey - every sane adult agrees, right Belinda ?

So how exactly is it that the Swan possesses more of what is the Truth (whatever the Truth actually is) and more of the good ( morality/moral virtue/moral worth) than the turkey? :?:

The actress and model Liz Hurley was one of my pin-ups when I was younger - she was, in her prime, a remarkably beautiful woman. Millions of men around the world wholeheartedly agreed. Liz, however, was notorious for her immoral conduct ( very bad behaviour), and how it is precisely that she was, in fact, the embodiment of TRUTH, I have no idea. She was a notorious liar, just for starters ! :shock:

Please explain. And with your explanation, I would be grateful if you could append a neat, rational, crisp definition of the term "beauty." (I can do that, can you ?)

Regards

Dachshund

PS: With respect to their political views, by today's standards, Solzhenitzin and Dostoevsky were both passionate (traditional) social Conservatives (in the way a "One Nation" Tory like "Citizen" John Major was when he was British PM in the 1990's). Both of them -AS and FD - had a visceral loathing for any form of egalitarian socialist ideology. So it is very encouraging, I must say (!) to see that you, Belinda, (a self-confessed socialist) have been broadening your intellectual horizons by reading some robustly right-wing authors of note. I'm confident that there is hope for you yet, my dear !

Belinda
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Belinda » Thu May 09, 2019 11:55 am

if you could append a neat, rational, crisp definition of the term "beauty." (I can do that, can you ?)

Beauty is that which wholistically relates to truth and goodness, and which sometimes can be intuited by reasoning and sensible people.

Dachshund
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Dachshund » Thu May 09, 2019 2:00 pm

Belinda wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:55 am
if you could append a neat, rational, crisp definition of the term "beauty." (I can do that, can you ?)

Beauty is that which wholistically relates to truth and goodness, and which sometimes can be intuited by reasoning and sensible people.



That's great Belinda ! But I am still having a bit a of trouble grasping what beauty is because you have said it relates "wholistically to Truth (and goodness). By "wholistically", I presume you mean that beauty, goodness and truth are a mysterious, esoteric "gestalten" like the Holy Trinity: "One God in three Persons" kind of thing? So, anyway, to cut to the chase, I'm going to put on my "Pontious Pilot hat" and ask you if you could kindly tell me: "QUID EST VERITAS, BELINDA ?" (i.e. What is Truth, Belinda ?)

Regards

Dachshund WOOF, WOOF !!

Dachshund
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Dachshund » Thu May 09, 2019 2:35 pm

gaffo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:19 am
if i were not cursed with dyslexia i would probably like poetry ;-/.

Ermmm, Gaffo...

Dyslexia means that you can't read the written or printed word competently, right dude?

So how come you are interested in philosophy ?

Being a philosopher, or a student of philosophy, means that you naturally enjoy doing a lot of reading, often of heavy, dense text!

I don't geddit ?

Regards


Dachshund

Belinda
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Belinda » Thu May 09, 2019 5:24 pm

The story goes that Pontius Pilate said so and let's suppose he did : Pontius Pilate referred to The truth which changes according to the light in which it's viewed and is not the Platonic Form of truth, and is at best a distorted reflection of it. Our best human cognition of truth is the knowledge, care, and judgement of someone who has a conscience, or a consciousness if you will, based upon that individual's reason i.e. the reason of an individual who is a fully developed human being .

But howsoever these things are thus in men’s depraved judgments and affections, yet truth, which only doth judge itself, teacheth that the inquiry of truth, which is the love-making or wooing of it, the knowledge of truth, which is the presence of it, and the belief of truth, which is the enjoying of it, is the sovereign good of human nature. Bacon

gaffo
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by gaffo » Fri May 10, 2019 2:18 am

Dachshund wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:35 pm
gaffo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:19 am
if i were not cursed with dyslexia i would probably like poetry ;-/.

Ermmm, Gaffo...

Dyslexia means that you can't read the written or printed word competently, right dude?

So how come you are interested in philosophy ?

Being a philosopher, or a student of philosophy, means that you naturally enjoy doing a lot of reading, often of heavy, dense text!

I don't geddit ?

Regards


Dachshund
you are the racist right? (BTW if you found a best friend that happened to be also black - you'd become more than you are now, and serve your black friend, and he/she you if they were a true friend to you). I'm not PC - think you are reprehensible and ignorant to have the view you have, but also know you are just a guy like me - though more ignorant than you could be - and so i will talk with you.

I insulted you, and called you ignorant, so you of course have the right to ignore my posts as well. im all for talking until i no longer find it of value (and i can comparmentalise - ignore your racism and discuss other matters).

maybe you can too - or not - whatever.


Per your inquary (refer to "language" section of this forum - i posited my view of how English "Should" be written (phonetically -which is it not currently and sadly)- i'm a nobody, so my views will not make words spelled right - just saying i posted in that section of this forum on the matter and you can find it if you wish to - recently - last 2 months or so).

i digressed, per your inquiry, I'm Dyslexic, but mild affliction. i read 2-3 yrs behind my pears between 1-4 th grade, thankfully i had parents that knew this than provided reading specialists to allow me to "Catch up" - by 8th grade i was on par (on par - i.e. good enough to learn from there - and to read, though slower than average- I'd say i read about 20-percent slower than ave - a guess).

reading is "Work" for me - i get tired when reading a book, but i do read for it allows for learning.

as for spelling, that is a lost cause, i cannot spell and no amount of will will make me a good speller, but at least i'm a good reader.

others with a more acute form of Dyslexia have a much harder time - both at reading and esp spelling.

sadly.

if in your mind that make one with that handicap "dump and low IQ" - then so be it.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri May 10, 2019 2:24 am

Dachshund wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:10 am
Belinda wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:52 am
The idea is that beauty is an indicator of truth and goodness . Beauty indicates the presence also of truth and goodness. This theme is common to all the Romantic poets and some others including Solzhenitzin.
Physical attractiveness is measured by fashion trends and cultural norms and of itself is not beauty.

Hitler Nazis are notorious for elevating a certain set of physical traits over beauty of character and reputation. While physical traits are a necessary component of beauty physical traits are in themselves not sufficient for beauty. Charisma is superficial charm and counts for nothing compared with beauty.

But a work of art bears within itself its own verification: conceptions which are devised or stretched do not stand being portrayed in images, they all come crashing down, appear sickly and pale, convince no one. But those works of art which have scooped up the truth and presented it to us as a living force – they take hold of us, compel us, and nobody ever, not even in ages to come, will appear to refute them.

So perhaps that ancient trinity of Truth, Goodness and Beauty is not simply an empty, faded formula as we thought in the days of our self-confident, materialistic youth? If the tops of these three trees converge, as the scholars maintained, but the too blatant, too direct stems of Truth and Goodness are crushed, cut down, not allowed through – then perhaps the fantastic, unpredictable, unexpected stems of Beauty will push through and soar TO THAT VERY SAME PLACE, and in so doing will fulfil the work of all three?

In that case Dostoevsky’s remark, “Beauty will save the world”, was not a careless phrase but a prophecy? After all HE was granted to see much, a man of fantastic illumination.

And in that case art, literature might really be able to help the world today?


Solzhenitzin, Nobel prize speech
A swan is more beautiful than a turkey - every sane adult agrees, right Belinda ?

So how exactly is it that the Swan possesses more of what is the Truth (whatever the Truth actually is) and more of the good ( morality/moral virtue/moral worth) than the turkey? :?:

The actress and model Liz Hurley was one of my pin-ups when I was younger - she was, in her prime, a remarkably beautiful woman. Millions of men around the world wholeheartedly agreed. Liz, however, was notorious for her immoral conduct ( very bad behaviour), and how it is precisely that she was, in fact, the embodiment of TRUTH, I have no idea. She was a notorious liar, just for starters ! :shock:

Please explain. And with your explanation, I would be grateful if you could append a neat, rational, crisp definition of the term "beauty." (I can do that, can you ?)

Regards

Dachshund

PS: With respect to their political views, by today's standards, Solzhenitzin and Dostoevsky were both passionate (traditional) social Conservatives (in the way a "One Nation" Tory like "Citizen" John Major was when he was British PM in the 1990's). Both of them -AS and FD - had a visceral loathing for any form of egalitarian socialist ideology. So it is very encouraging, I must say (!) to see that you, Belinda, (a self-confessed socialist) have been broadening your intellectual horizons by reading some robustly right-wing authors of note. I'm confident that there is hope for you yet, my dear !
Liz Hurley was 'notorious for her immoral conduct'? Really? What a self-righteous little hypocritical prig you are.

gaffo
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by gaffo » Fri May 10, 2019 2:48 am

Belinda wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:52 am
The idea is that beauty is an indicator of truth and goodness . Beauty indicates the presence also of truth and goodness. This theme is common to all
I know that is the mindset "truth=beauty". think it is semtimental hogwash myself.

truth may be purely ugly and or evil.

truth is not knowable, but not one to be biased and assume beauty has more truth than ugly, when both are equal and have nothing to do with Truth.

gaffo
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by gaffo » Fri May 10, 2019 3:04 am

Dachshund wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:35 pm
gaffo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:19 am
if i were not cursed with dyslexia i would probably like poetry ;-/.
Dachshund wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:35 pm
So how come you are interested in philosophy ?

Dachshund
just noted i did not answer this particular.

i think i was born an "old soul" - born intrevert, so just "Watched others on the playground" - and took mental notes as a 6 yr old (6 yr old Jane Goodall)

when one is a "loner"/"outsider"/"loser" - one is forced to be "Alone all the time and become ones best friend - and so know oneself (this is why i think introverts are wiser than extorverts) - i.e. Self konwledge is wisdom, extroverts never had to learn of themselves, never being forced to become their own best friend due to fear of others/lonelyness).


I became interested in philosphy as a product of being an introvert with myself is my best friend as a kid - and so had alot of time "thinking about stuff" - i think i hit 80 by the time i was 10.

that mental age/wisdom does not continue on the that kid curve - as a 53 yr old i'm not 500 yrs old. other extraverts/young souls do catch up - to a degree (most of them - by 20's - others are lost forever in childhood). I'm around 120 or so and if lucky assuming ie make it to 85 will die a 130 yr old wisdomly.

your God willing.

otherwise all bets are off.

Dachshund
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Dachshund » Fri May 10, 2019 3:22 am

gaffo wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:48 am
Belinda wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:52 am
The idea is that beauty is an indicator of truth and goodness . Beauty indicates the presence also of truth and goodness. This theme is common to all
I know that is the mindset "truth=beauty". think it is semtimental hogwash myself.

truth may be purely ugly and or evil.

truth is not knowable, but not one to be biased and assume beauty has more truth than ugly, when both are equal and have nothing to do with Truth.
Gaffo,

You're right that the notion Beauty, Truth and Morality (goodness) are organically interfused in an absolute/eternal etc "One" is hard to swallow. It's basically a neoplatonic, mystical,theological doctrine that was promulgated somewhere between the 5th and 6th centuries by a medieval Christian scholar called Pseudo-Dionysus the Areopagite. Pseudo-Dionysus was, as you suggest, a super-sensitive, emotional, hyper-sentimental dude who basically lost the plot and disappeared up his own mystical butt-hole.

I'll get back to Belinda about all of this nonsense anon.

Regards,

Dachshund

Dachshund
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Dachshund » Fri May 10, 2019 3:24 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:24 am


Liz Hurley was 'notorious for her immoral conduct'? Really? What a self-righteous little hypocritical prig you are.
Veggie, why wont you answer my question about NARNIA ?

Dachshund

Dachshund
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Dachshund » Fri May 10, 2019 3:30 am

Dachshund wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:22 am
gaffo wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:48 am
Belinda wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:52 am
The idea is that beauty is an indicator of truth and goodness . Beauty indicates the presence also of truth and goodness. This theme is common to all
I know that is the mindset "truth=beauty". think it is semtimental hogwash myself.

truth may be purely ugly and or evil.

truth is not knowable, but not one to be biased and assume beauty has more truth than ugly, when both are equal and have nothing to do with Truth.
Gaffo,

You're right that the notion Beauty, Truth and Morality (goodness) are organically interfused in an absolute/eternal etc "One" is hard to swallow. It's basically a neoplatonic, mystical,theological doctrine that was promulgated somewhere between the 5th and 6th centuries by a medieval Christian scholar called Pseudo-Dionysus the Areopagite. Pseudo-Dionysus was, as you suggest, a super-sensitive, emotional, hyper-sentimental dude who basically lost the plot and disappeared up his own mystical butt-hole.

I'll get back to Belinda about all of this nonsense anon. Poor little thing, she's a socialist you know (i.e. cognitively challenged) and proud of it (!!), so we must try to be charitable/compassionate in dealing with her misunderstandings.

Regards,

Dachshund

gaffo
Posts: 2451
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by gaffo » Fri May 10, 2019 3:35 am

Dachshund wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:22 am
gaffo wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:48 am
Belinda wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:52 am
The idea is that beauty is an indicator of truth and goodness . Beauty indicates the presence also of truth and goodness. This theme is common to all
I know that is the mindset "truth=beauty". think it is semtimental hogwash myself.

truth may be purely ugly and or evil.

truth is not knowable, but not one to be biased and assume beauty has more truth than ugly, when both are equal and have nothing to do with Truth.
Gaffo,

You're right that the notion Beauty, Truth and Morality (goodness) are organically interfused in an absolute/eternal etc "One" is hard to swallow. It's basically a neoplatonic, mystical,theological doctrine that was promulgated somewhere between the 5th and 6th centuries by a medieval Christian scholar called Pseudo-Dionysus the Areopagite. Pseudo-Dionysus was, as you suggest, a super-sensitive, emotional, hyper-sentimental dude who basically lost the plot and disappeared up his own mystical butt-hole.

I'll get back to Belinda about all of this nonsense anon.

Regards,

Dachshund
per "philosphy of lanquage" - sub thread "spelling"

my post on the matter:

Re: Is proper spelling important?
Post by gaffo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:14 am

Ghost wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:59 pm
My greatest friend spells words phonetically. I realized if I had discarded him as easily as I have others online who can't spell properly I would have missed out on my best friend. I used to see other's spelling mistakes as their lack of intelligence just as I see 'text speak' as laziness/stupidity. Other people may see my own poor grammar or sentence structure as the same.
I have become more forgiving over many years now. I recognize that languages will change as words fall into history and new words are created or change definition. Some people will have dyslexia, some will only be able to spell words phonetically, etc. How important is proper spelling anyways?
There is a quote that is often attributed to both Mark Twain and Thomas Jefferson that is about lacking imagination if only spelling a word one way.


gaffo's post below:

I have Dyslexia - mild thankfully, i loathe English because though it claims to be phonetic, it really is not.

it could! be - and i made a "System" years ago to make it phonetic, but being a no-body, its just a mental fantasy (wish) on my part. If Englsih were re-writen in my "System" English would be truly phonetic. my self made mental fantasy rules for English is quite simple.

1. no silent letters - remove all of them in words that have them.
2. remove the letter "K", it was imported by the Romans from the Greeks and is a foreign letter- identical to "C" in all ways - so remove it, all words with "k" in them shall be respelled with the letter "C"
3. no double consonents! - and so no silly rules about long sounding/short sounding prior vowel letters (the whole "vowel phonetics depends upon a LATTER letter/double letter is dumb! - it breaks "real time phonetics" - one has to see the latter letters in the word in real time in reading the damn word!
4. limit the less used letters to their sole sound - so "Y" only in words with "yu" - not in words where it is used instead of "i" (each letter should have it own sound, so all uses of "y" in cases of words where it is used instead of "i" should be respelled with "i" (etc for all letters! - no duplication allowed).
5. short form phonetics of vowels should be ONE vowel letter, long form should always be Double Vowels! (thus removing the double consonate bullshit, silent letter "e" at end of word bullcrap too.

those five rules fix all spellings.
.................
in will rewrite the above in proper phonetic English now.

I hav dislexea - mild thancfule, i louth English becus tho it claams to be funetic, it reely is not.

it cud be - and i maad a "sistem" yeers ago to maac it fonetic, but beeing a no-bodi, its just a mental fantasi (wish) on mi part. if English wur ree-ritin in my "sistem" English wud be truuli fonetic. my self maad mental fantasi ruuls for English is quiit simpl.

1. no silent letrs - reemoov al of them in words that hav them.
2. reemoov the letr "K", it wus imported bii the Romans from the Greecs and is a foren letr - indentical to "c" in al wais - so remoov it, al words with "K" in them shal bee respeled with the letr "C"
3. no dubl consunats! - and so no sili ruuls about long sounding/short sounding prior voul letrs (the hool "voul fonetics depends upon a LATR letr/dubl letr is dum! - it braacs "reel tiim fonetics" - won has to see the latr letrs in the words in reel tiim in reeding the dam word!
4. limit the les usd letrs to thair sol sound - so "Y" onli in words with "yu' - not in words whar it is usd insted of "i" (eech letr shud hav it oun sound, so al uses of "Y" in cases of words whar it is usd insted of "I" shud be respeled with "i' (ect for al letrs!) - no duplicashum aloud!
5.short form fonetics of vouls shud be WUN voul letr, long form shud alwais be Dubl Vouls! (thus remooving the dubl consonat boolshit, silent letr "e" at end of word boolcrap too.

.................

simple example of rule 5:

Kite............Ciit
Kit............Cit
Cat.............Cat

Kate...........Caat

Like...............Liic

Lick...........Lic

Sick............Sic

Bite............Biit

Blight..............Bliit

Sight..............Siit

Hate..............Haat

Hat..........Hat

Fake...........Faac

Fat............Fat

etc..........

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