Why is nazism popular today?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Sculptor
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Sculptor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:30 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:56 am
Sculptor wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:03 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:23 pm


Sure, there was compassion and humaneness before the Axial Age. Humans had to cooperate with each other. However, it was primarily directed towards one's own tribe.
And what exactly is your evidence for that?
I can tell you there is much evidence to the contrary.
It seems to me that Jesus and others, through example, united people from diverse backgrounds. What sort of negativity was in Jesus' message? Things like "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbor" seem like pretty good messages to me.
You are kidding aren't you? Where do I start?
How about shun your family and follow me in Matthew?
How about believe in me or burn?
Matthew 3
3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mark 6
6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

And what do you take THIS to mean?
Luke 12
12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

It goes on...
12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law

Where is your "It seems to me that Jesus and others, through example, united people from diverse backgrounds...." NOW?
Jesus lived a rough life in rough times. He supposedly spoke in proverbs and metaphorically. I don't know what he means by those passages you cite. I'm not a Biblical scholar. What do you think they mean? For example, the words "follow me" and shun your parents could be interpreted as Jesus saying that one should not follow wicked parents (parents who won't follow his teachings). Maybe he's preaching only to those who need it most. He walked among the poor and sick quite a bit.
Stop apologising for totalitarianism.

Gary Childress
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Gary Childress » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:46 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:30 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:56 am
Sculptor wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:03 pm

And what exactly is your evidence for that?
I can tell you there is much evidence to the contrary.


You are kidding aren't you? Where do I start?
How about shun your family and follow me in Matthew?
How about believe in me or burn?
Matthew 3
3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mark 6
6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

And what do you take THIS to mean?
Luke 12
12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

It goes on...
12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law

Where is your "It seems to me that Jesus and others, through example, united people from diverse backgrounds...." NOW?
Jesus lived a rough life in rough times. He supposedly spoke in proverbs and metaphorically. I don't know what he means by those passages you cite. I'm not a Biblical scholar. What do you think they mean? For example, the words "follow me" and shun your parents could be interpreted as Jesus saying that one should not follow wicked parents (parents who won't follow his teachings). Maybe he's preaching only to those who need it most. He walked among the poor and sick quite a bit.
Stop apologising for totalitarianism.
Was Jesus a dictator, then? Is God a dictator because if a person does evil they will pay for it? Without such rules, what would prevent people from committing murder or other sins? How can there be justice without rules and the enforcement of them?

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Sculptor
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Sculptor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:21 pm

Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:46 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:30 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:56 am


Jesus lived a rough life in rough times. He supposedly spoke in proverbs and metaphorically. I don't know what he means by those passages you cite. I'm not a Biblical scholar. What do you think they mean? For example, the words "follow me" and shun your parents could be interpreted as Jesus saying that one should not follow wicked parents (parents who won't follow his teachings). Maybe he's preaching only to those who need it most. He walked among the poor and sick quite a bit.
Stop apologising for totalitarianism.
Was Jesus a dictator, then? Is God a dictator because if a person does evil they will pay for it? Without such rules, what would prevent people from committing murder or other sins? How can there be justice without rules and the enforcement of them?
I do not need the threat of hell to make me respect people.

Gary Childress
Posts: 1903
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Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Gary Childress » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:10 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:21 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:46 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:30 am

Stop apologising for totalitarianism.
Was Jesus a dictator, then? Is God a dictator because if a person does evil they will pay for it? Without such rules, what would prevent people from committing murder or other sins? How can there be justice without rules and the enforcement of them?
I do not need the threat of hell to make me respect people.
Congratulations, then. I"m sure you will go to heaven if there is a God. Apparently not everyone is as good as you are. There are some people out there who will sling insults at people pretty readily. There are people out there like Rupert Murdoch who will send people out of work in order to make an extra billion to complement his already enormous wealth. There are people out there like Stalin who will send human beings to their deaths in the name of the "greater good". Wouldn't it be fitting that they paid some debt for their sins since they were never punished in their mortal lives? Even Hitler escaped the hangman. He killed himself but he didn't lead a life any worse than many of the innocent Jews he murdered.

Gary Childress
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Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Gary Childress » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:44 pm

And while I'm at it, I should probably add that many of the Presidents of the United States are responsible for some pretty serious sins as well--as most are well aware.

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Sculptor
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:58 pm

Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:10 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:21 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:46 pm


Was Jesus a dictator, then? Is God a dictator because if a person does evil they will pay for it? Without such rules, what would prevent people from committing murder or other sins? How can there be justice without rules and the enforcement of them?
I do not need the threat of hell to make me respect people.
Congratulations, then. I"m sure you will go to heaven if there is a God. Apparently not everyone is as good as you are.
There is a higher proportion of theists INSIDE prison than out of it. And there is a higher proportion of atheists who have attended or attending university than have not.
It seems the road it goodness in not religion but education.
There are some people out there who will sling insults at people pretty readily. There are people out there like Rupert Murdoch who will send people out of work in order to make an extra billion to complement his already enormous wealth. There are people out there like Stalin who will send human beings to their deaths in the name of the "greater good". Wouldn't it be fitting that they paid some debt for their sins since they were never punished in their mortal lives?
Wishing that heaven is a place, shall not make it so.
Even Hitler escaped the hangman. He killed himself but he didn't lead a life any worse than many of the innocent Jews he murdered.

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Sculptor
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:00 pm

Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:44 pm
And while I'm at it, I should probably add that many of the Presidents of the United States are responsible for some pretty serious sins as well--as most are well aware.
The current one makes moral errors on a daily basis. He sent the army in to quell a peaceful protest with tear gas yesterday so that he could go to church to pose for a picture with a Bible in his hand. No doubt a good Christian.

Gloominary
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Gloominary » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:10 am

Why is antiblue, antiwhite and misandrist communism popular today?

Belinda
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Belinda » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:56 am

Sculptor wrote:
It seems the road it goodness in not religion but education.
That's what I tend to claim. What remains when indoctrination, duration of schooling, skills training, or ivory-tower learning are shown not to be education and, in the case of indoctrination, antithetical to education?

It's a wide ranging topic through curriculum, teaching methods, equality of opportunity, the ruling regime's attitude to public spending, social mobility, affluence and poverty with connection between education and health, balance of arts and sciences, ethnic and religious traditions, commercial and economic traditions.

Belinda
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Belinda » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:08 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Jesus lived a rough life in rough times. He supposedly spoke in proverbs and metaphorically. I don't know what he means by those passages you cite. I'm not a Biblical scholar. What do you think they mean? For example, the words "follow me" and shun your parents could be interpreted as Jesus saying that one should not follow wicked parents (parents who won't follow his teachings). Maybe he's preaching only to those who need it most. He walked among the poor and sick quite a bit.
At least you have the correct attitude for a Biblical scholar to have. There are two questions embedded in you question " What do you think they mean? " One question which is largely of interest to historians is 'what did Jesus mean' and the other question is 'what might those words mean to me/us?'

The second question is more interesting to most people who are not professional historians. What that saying of Jesus means to me and other socialists is 'abandon tribal customs and embrace the good of the many' . And that attitude extends to 'abandon the safety of tribe and family if your conscience tells you to do so' .
God only knows what those words of Jesus mean to political conservatives !

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henry quirk
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by henry quirk » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:44 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:00 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:44 pm
And while I'm at it, I should probably add that many of the Presidents of the United States are responsible for some pretty serious sins as well--as most are well aware.
The current one makes moral errors on a daily basis. He sent the army in to quell a peaceful protest with tear gas yesterday so that he could go to church to pose for a picture with a Bible in his hand. No doubt a good Christian.
And the prez before him weaponized the gov to investigate & prosecute a political rival for no other reason than he was a political rival, and to promote that investigation & prosecution that prior prez authorized the use of lies and misinformation, to secure warrants, to legitimize surveillance, to secure unfounded indictments.

As Gary sez, many of the Presidents of the United States are responsible for some pretty serious sins.

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henry quirk
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by henry quirk » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:52 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:10 am
Why is antiblue, antiwhite and misandrist communism popular today?
Cuz you can't formally install a state communism in a constitutional republic. You have to abolish the republic first.

To that end...

You discredit the law, create a boogyman, promote a fairytale.

You denigrate stable culture through lies and mis-categorization, instill envy, tear down self-responsibility.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:57 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:44 pm
As Gary sez, many of the Presidents of the United States are responsible for some pretty serious sins.
I remember a few years ago, the Democratic front-runner for presidential nomination, Gary Hart, had his career entirely derailed by one photo of a lissome model named Donna Rice sitting on his knee on a boat appropriately named, "Monkey Business." (sometimes you can't make stuff up) The assumption then seemed to be that if a man cannot keep faith with his wife, then he cannot be expected to keep faith with the voting public, with whom he has a far less intimate connection. Hart's career was done.

I remember that now, as the conduct of the various former presidents and candidates for presidency are coming to light. It seems that nowadays, even being a serial rapist or being up to one's elbows in proven government corruption is insufficient to render one incapable of gaining public trust or being installed in public office. We're asking a whole lot less, morally, of our modern politicians; and it seems we're getting exactly what we deserve from that.

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henry quirk
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"we're getting exactly what we deserve"

Post by henry quirk » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:12 pm

That's as it should be.

Consequences are natural & normal.

Hire a thief: don't cry when your wallet goes missin'.

Hire a whoremonger: don't be shocked when the blue dress gets dirty.

Hire a commie: don't protest when your back is against the wall and the squad is takin' aim.

Hire a hand grenade: kick back, watch high-larious chaos unfold.

Ain't no victims: ever.

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Sculptor
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?

Post by Sculptor » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:18 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:44 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:00 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:44 pm
And while I'm at it, I should probably add that many of the Presidents of the United States are responsible for some pretty serious sins as well--as most are well aware.
The current one makes moral errors on a daily basis. He sent the army in to quell a peaceful protest with tear gas yesterday so that he could go to church to pose for a picture with a Bible in his hand. No doubt a good Christian.
And the prez before him weaponized the gov to investigate & prosecute a political rival for no other reason than he was a political rival, and to promote that investigation & prosecution that prior prez authorized the use of lies and misinformation, to secure warrants, to legitimize surveillance, to secure unfounded indictments.

As Gary sez, many of the Presidents of the United States are responsible for some pretty serious sins.
Whataboutery

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