philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
The West may not be militarily or economically superior to say China, Saudi Arabia etc. It may be, but it may well turn out that China becomes the world largest superpower, unfortunately.
China will be the World Power by 2030-40. thats just common sense horse sense understanding of historical trends.
like the Brits - "sun never set upon the Empire" until 1948.
the same will be with America.
so the question is how to deal with this inevitable reality.
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
But I will argue why The West (Western Europe+US/Canada+Australia and maybe even countries in Asia/Middle East under Western protection, like Japan, South Korea, Israel but excluding Saudi Arabia, even though they are protected by U.S. but they certainly do not share Western values).
you forgot Taiwan, and remove Israel - a fully and willfully racist/theocratic state as long as they illegally occupy the West Bank.
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
It has all to do with the understanding of basic human rights. Not that I'm saying they're not imposing Death Penalty (they do execute a lot in South Korea, Japan and U.S.) or that none of them have censorship (media censorship is tough in Australia, France and Germany amongst other countries).
It has to do with the degree of human rights (freedom of speech, the seperation of state - judicial, governing and executive, and the right to political representation ie. the right to vote) is of a much higher level in The West or countries influenced by Western Ideal, than in any other part of the world.
China has always had a history of surveillance and mass-executions and heavy censorship + Despotism - back to the earliest Dynasties.
So has Russia with its Tsars, and the entire Middle East with all its sultans, despot kings etc.
agreed.
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
From the Ancient Europe (Greece, Rome) very few rulers possessed absolute power. Caesar did, but he was assassinated.
um. no, Augustas, Tyberious, Claduious Valinintius, Domitian, Hadrian,/etc......... - and 20 more so after live long lives and were not assisinated
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
The same fate happened to a lot of other despots in Europe. We never shared the same "need" for despotism in Europe, like they did/do in China, and this is what makes The West morally superior to the Chinese.
really, maybe you need to look toward Germany of 1932.
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
Religious freedom has also been very much thought of since Ancient Rome.
unless you were a Jew or Christian - not willing to worship the Emperor as a God,
then, no, the gloves were off and you were killed.
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
Even in the Middle Ages, but in the late-middle ages, Cathars and other Heretics were burned at the stake, and the Protestant Reformation gave us the Witch-burnings and the Baroque through to the 19th century despotism in many European countries and the Slave-era from the 1500s-1860s. Those were dark chapters in our history, like Holocaust in 1930-1945. .
yep.
Holocost dates from 43 to 45 BTW. historical accuracy - i,e, facts - matter.
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
China and the Middle East has had not one or two or three, maybe four dark chapters of its history. It had one - but it lasted throughout its entire history from Ancient through pre-modern to Modern which continues to this day.
ok, Arabs were the enlightened ones during the European dark ages - and saved the Greek texts for us to later learn of Socrates /etc - today the Arabs are in the dark age and the europeans are out of it.
not sure about chinese history - i'm ignorant of it so will not comment about it - welcome education though.
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
Generally speaking, the West is simply put a much nicer place to live, than anywhere else on Earth, and its not due to our resources. China has plenty of resources - like Oil, Minerals etc. and plenty of space. The Middle East was the Fertile Crescent and to this day, it has a lot of oil.
It has to do with our MORAL values. U.S. may have Death Penalty, but the U.S. don't kill as many people as they do in China - even if we look at executions pr. capita, China is the leading World Executioner.
U.S. also don't execute people merely for their religious beliefs or speech - it is reserved for murder and treason.
China impose Death Penalty for minor offences as well, even speaking out against the regime.
Any nation under influence from Saudi Arabia, China, Syria, Russia or any other despot state, is a cruel and barbaric place to live in.
You really don't want to live in any Asian country, unless its name is Japan or South Korea. You don't want to live in any other continent unless it is Europe (The Western side), North America or Australia.
Eastern Europe seems willing to shit on Liberty, with Orban/company.......as does Indian with Modi. and my America with Trump.
you left out Taiwan above, and Democratic Republic - not China. but the ROC (not PRC).
philosopher wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
And the reasons has nothing to do with our wealth & prosperity. Our Wealth & Prosperity throughout history has all to do with our basic moral values, to never trust a despot, to scatter our people and beliefs and be diverse - together.
However, present day Europe may be the end to this story. Nationalism is becoming really ugly these days. Just look at Orban's Hungary, or Poland, Austria and even the U.S.
Nationalism is making more and more European countries fall into despotism and becoming less European and more... Asian. In every aspect, Hungary and Poland is much more Asian/Middle Eastern in its way of thinking, than France or Germany.
If you don't get rid of Trump, U.S. will fall too - into the hands of the Chinese/Russian sphere of influence. It won't be pretty.
ya its ugly, what do you suggest to fight the ugly?