Why the West is morally superior

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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 pm
philosopher wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:52 pm
Kayla wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:54 pm it is interesting to note that people generally think that their own country / culture / etc is superior - and then try to justify it with reasons that purport to be universal

whats with that?
True, but only the West has proven it in reality. The West was - prior to the First World War - the only culture to have colonized just about the entire world. From France to UK to Germany to Spain - in Asia, Americas, Middle East and Africa.

The West rid these inferior cultures from superstitious rituals like widow burnings and kept islamofascists at bay in the Middle East.
Spain also ended the human sacrifices in the Americas.

These inferior cultural traits returned only after the West abandoned their colonies in the mid-20th century, which they should never have done.
Hmm. So none of this is making coherent sense to me. In another thread you wanted to kill Nazis because you said they deserved to be killed for wanting to kill those inferior than them. Now you are saying that western culture did the right thing by colonizing "inferior" cultures (something that had to be done through intimidation and violence--often resulting in killing those "inferior" peoples). You seem to be preoccupied with condemning people to death. What's worse, is you are condemning them to death for reason that they condemn others to death. Should those of us who haven't been advocating for anyone's death now decide to kill you? I mean, it sounds like you may have "inferior" values that need to be purged from the human genome. And as much as I am reluctant to do it, maybe you have a good point. We need to purge you for the greater good of humanity. Sorry. :(
I think you have been misreading his obsession with nazism. He seems to know it's a bad thing, but he finds it deeply alluring.

He obviously has the basic temperament of a nazi to begin with (facism is about deploying violence against enemies mostly for the sake of the violence itself, nazism is about rounding them up and exterminating them wholesale). He despises all non European cultures. If you dig up his thread about universal basic income you will note he also despises the working classes. He's really just saving up for Damascene conversion to the mud people eliminating cause now, which will come as a surprise only to himself.
Gary Childress
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by Gary Childress »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:43 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 pm
philosopher wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:52 pm

True, but only the West has proven it in reality. The West was - prior to the First World War - the only culture to have colonized just about the entire world. From France to UK to Germany to Spain - in Asia, Americas, Middle East and Africa.

The West rid these inferior cultures from superstitious rituals like widow burnings and kept islamofascists at bay in the Middle East.
Spain also ended the human sacrifices in the Americas.

These inferior cultural traits returned only after the West abandoned their colonies in the mid-20th century, which they should never have done.
Hmm. So none of this is making coherent sense to me. In another thread you wanted to kill Nazis because you said they deserved to be killed for wanting to kill those inferior than them. Now you are saying that western culture did the right thing by colonizing "inferior" cultures (something that had to be done through intimidation and violence--often resulting in killing those "inferior" peoples). You seem to be preoccupied with condemning people to death. What's worse, is you are condemning them to death for reason that they condemn others to death. Should those of us who haven't been advocating for anyone's death now decide to kill you? I mean, it sounds like you may have "inferior" values that need to be purged from the human genome. And as much as I am reluctant to do it, maybe you have a good point. We need to purge you for the greater good of humanity. Sorry. :(
I think you have been misreading his obsession with nazism. He seems to know it's a bad thing, but he finds it deeply alluring.

He obviously has the basic temperament of a nazi to begin with (facism is about deploying violence against enemies mostly for the sake of the violence itself, nazism is about rounding them up and exterminating them wholesale). He despises all non European cultures. If you dig up his thread about universal basic income you will note he also despises the working classes. He's really just saving up for Damascene conversion to the mud people eliminating cause now, which will come as a surprise only to himself.
Hmm. Well, I don't remember him posting stuff like this years ago. I seem to recall him posting more innocuous questions and stuff like that here. Not sure what has changed in his life but it seems different now if my recollection is accurate. Maybe he's just doing it to get a rise out of people. I suppose that's possible too.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 pm Hmm. So none of this is making coherent sense to me.
I'd just say what they used to say in the days of the great Cuban influx..."All the boats are one way."

Everybody and his grandmother wants to escape to the West. Meanwhile, there are not similar masses migrating to Saudi, or North Africa, or China. That tells you all you need to know: people are voting with their feet, and they're all voting West.
Gary Childress
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:31 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 pm Hmm. So none of this is making coherent sense to me.
I'd just say what they used to say in the days of the great Cuban influx..."All the boats are one way."

Everybody and his grandmother wants to escape to the West. Meanwhile, there are not similar masses migrating to Saudi, or North Africa, or China. That tells you all you need to know: people are voting with their feet, and they're all voting West.
I was referring to his comments about the west colonizing other cultures to rid them of "inferior" cultural practices of violence and therefore we had to colonize and enact violence on them --doesn't make sense to me.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:03 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:31 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 pm Hmm. So none of this is making coherent sense to me.
I'd just say what they used to say in the days of the great Cuban influx..."All the boats are one way."

Everybody and his grandmother wants to escape to the West. Meanwhile, there are not similar masses migrating to Saudi, or North Africa, or China. That tells you all you need to know: people are voting with their feet, and they're all voting West.
I was referring to his comments about the west colonizing other cultures to rid them of "inferior" cultural practices of violence and therefore we had to colonize and enact violence on them --doesn't make sense to me.
I see.
Dubious
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by Dubious »

gaffo wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:26 am

5. Western Civilization is all thanks to the Romans and the prior Greeks (not due to Germans, nor Anglo-Sazons, nor Franks or Danish), with help from the English who re-discovered the former's works and adopted them for their own.

Some people are just too stupid to be embarrassed by their own ignorance.

Amazing!
philosopher
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by philosopher »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 pm
philosopher wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:52 pm
Kayla wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:54 pm it is interesting to note that people generally think that their own country / culture / etc is superior - and then try to justify it with reasons that purport to be universal

whats with that?
True, but only the West has proven it in reality. The West was - prior to the First World War - the only culture to have colonized just about the entire world. From France to UK to Germany to Spain - in Asia, Americas, Middle East and Africa.

The West rid these inferior cultures from superstitious rituals like widow burnings and kept islamofascists at bay in the Middle East.
Spain also ended the human sacrifices in the Americas.

These inferior cultural traits returned only after the West abandoned their colonies in the mid-20th century, which they should never have done.
Hmm. So none of this is making coherent sense to me. In another thread you wanted to kill Nazis because you said they deserved to be killed for wanting to kill those inferior than them. Now you are saying that western culture did the right thing by colonizing "inferior" cultures (something that had to be done through intimidation and violence--often resulting in killing those "inferior" peoples). You seem to be preoccupied with condemning people to death. What's worse, is you are condemning them to death for reason that they condemn others to death. Should those of us who haven't been advocating for anyone's death now decide to kill you? I mean, it sounds like you may have "inferior" values that need to be purged from the human genome. And as much as I am reluctant to do it, maybe you have a good point. We need to purge you for the greater good of humanity. Sorry. :(
I'm not saying the colonists killing, executing and enslaving the colonized world was of any good. I'm saying that it was a good thing the West stopped the superstitious rituals of widow burnings and human sacrifices. They couldn't have done this without colonizing, say India.
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Kayla
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by Kayla »

philosopher wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:52 pm Spain also ended the human sacrifices in the Americas.
Lol, i like people parodying loony right-wing types as much as the next girl, but you maybe overdoing it
gaffo
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by gaffo »

Kayla wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 10:01 pm
philosopher wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:52 pm Spain also ended the human sacrifices in the Americas.
Lol, i like people parodying loony right-wing types as much as the next girl, but you maybe overdoing it
the Aztecs were no hippies.

I'm fine with the Spanish killing them off.

they had help from other indian tribes. in fact the spanish would have lost if not for their help.

why did 30 or so other indian tribes side with the Spanish? why ideed.

ask yourself that!

because the Aztecs were thugs.

good riddance, about the only good thing the spanish ever did in the new world.
Ishamael
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by Ishamael »

Here's a question then: Is it more moral to perform honest brutal action, in the name of a system you believe whole-heartedly through ignorance? Or is is it more moral to understand better what is right and wrong, in relation to your neighbour, but still act in a way you know is wrong, just because you can get away with it?

In the west, our everyday lives seem to be built in dishonesty and disingenuous behaviour toward our fellow man. Servers pretend to like and converse genuinely with their patrons. Large conglomerates pretend to work "ethically" and listen to the common-man. EA Games says "Pre-order this time, we promise not to screw you again." Are they the moral ones here, or the people we consider to be ignorant of social norms?
Gloominary
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by Gloominary »

The west use to be ethically and politically superior (that being said, I was never in favor of nation building/regime change wars), until we lost our sense of self and adopted multiracialism, multiculturalism and postnationalism.

Now we've taken it even further, now we hate ourselves, our culture and are looking forward to our genetic and memetic demise, now we're encouraging minorities to hate us.

At this rate, the west will not survive.
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HexHammer
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by HexHammer »

philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pmWhy the West is morally superior
You are COMPLETELY clueless, the west have participated in USA's "intervention wars" that have slaughtered millions of civilians and brought famine to many countries in the middle east! You should shut up and fuck off, you are ignorant and completely unsuited for basic philosophy.
gaffo
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by gaffo »

philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm The West may not be militarily or economically superior to say China, Saudi Arabia etc. It may be, but it may well turn out that China becomes the world largest superpower, unfortunately.
China will be the World Power by 2030-40. thats just common sense horse sense understanding of historical trends.

like the Brits - "sun never set upon the Empire" until 1948.

the same will be with America.

so the question is how to deal with this inevitable reality.



philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm But I will argue why The West (Western Europe+US/Canada+Australia and maybe even countries in Asia/Middle East under Western protection, like Japan, South Korea, Israel but excluding Saudi Arabia, even though they are protected by U.S. but they certainly do not share Western values).


you forgot Taiwan, and remove Israel - a fully and willfully racist/theocratic state as long as they illegally occupy the West Bank.

philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm It has all to do with the understanding of basic human rights. Not that I'm saying they're not imposing Death Penalty (they do execute a lot in South Korea, Japan and U.S.) or that none of them have censorship (media censorship is tough in Australia, France and Germany amongst other countries).

It has to do with the degree of human rights (freedom of speech, the seperation of state - judicial, governing and executive, and the right to political representation ie. the right to vote) is of a much higher level in The West or countries influenced by Western Ideal, than in any other part of the world.

China has always had a history of surveillance and mass-executions and heavy censorship + Despotism - back to the earliest Dynasties.
So has Russia with its Tsars, and the entire Middle East with all its sultans, despot kings etc.
agreed.
philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm From the Ancient Europe (Greece, Rome) very few rulers possessed absolute power. Caesar did, but he was assassinated.

um. no, Augustas, Tyberious, Claduious Valinintius, Domitian, Hadrian,/etc......... - and 20 more so after live long lives and were not assisinated


philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm
The same fate happened to a lot of other despots in Europe. We never shared the same "need" for despotism in Europe, like they did/do in China, and this is what makes The West morally superior to the Chinese.
really, maybe you need to look toward Germany of 1932.



philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm Religious freedom has also been very much thought of since Ancient Rome.
unless you were a Jew or Christian - not willing to worship the Emperor as a God,

then, no, the gloves were off and you were killed.


philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm Even in the Middle Ages, but in the late-middle ages, Cathars and other Heretics were burned at the stake, and the Protestant Reformation gave us the Witch-burnings and the Baroque through to the 19th century despotism in many European countries and the Slave-era from the 1500s-1860s. Those were dark chapters in our history, like Holocaust in 1930-1945. .
yep.

Holocost dates from 43 to 45 BTW. historical accuracy - i,e, facts - matter.

philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm China and the Middle East has had not one or two or three, maybe four dark chapters of its history. It had one - but it lasted throughout its entire history from Ancient through pre-modern to Modern which continues to this day.

ok, Arabs were the enlightened ones during the European dark ages - and saved the Greek texts for us to later learn of Socrates /etc - today the Arabs are in the dark age and the europeans are out of it.

not sure about chinese history - i'm ignorant of it so will not comment about it - welcome education though.


philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm Generally speaking, the West is simply put a much nicer place to live, than anywhere else on Earth, and its not due to our resources. China has plenty of resources - like Oil, Minerals etc. and plenty of space. The Middle East was the Fertile Crescent and to this day, it has a lot of oil.

It has to do with our MORAL values. U.S. may have Death Penalty, but the U.S. don't kill as many people as they do in China - even if we look at executions pr. capita, China is the leading World Executioner.

U.S. also don't execute people merely for their religious beliefs or speech - it is reserved for murder and treason.
China impose Death Penalty for minor offences as well, even speaking out against the regime.

Any nation under influence from Saudi Arabia, China, Syria, Russia or any other despot state, is a cruel and barbaric place to live in.
You really don't want to live in any Asian country, unless its name is Japan or South Korea. You don't want to live in any other continent unless it is Europe (The Western side), North America or Australia.
Eastern Europe seems willing to shit on Liberty, with Orban/company.......as does Indian with Modi. and my America with Trump.

you left out Taiwan above, and Democratic Republic - not China. but the ROC (not PRC).

philosopher wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm And the reasons has nothing to do with our wealth & prosperity. Our Wealth & Prosperity throughout history has all to do with our basic moral values, to never trust a despot, to scatter our people and beliefs and be diverse - together.

However, present day Europe may be the end to this story. Nationalism is becoming really ugly these days. Just look at Orban's Hungary, or Poland, Austria and even the U.S.

Nationalism is making more and more European countries fall into despotism and becoming less European and more... Asian. In every aspect, Hungary and Poland is much more Asian/Middle Eastern in its way of thinking, than France or Germany.

If you don't get rid of Trump, U.S. will fall too - into the hands of the Chinese/Russian sphere of influence. It won't be pretty.
ya its ugly, what do you suggest to fight the ugly?
gaffo
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Re: Why the West is morally superior

Post by gaffo »

I now see this thread was ressurected from death of over a year ago.

Praise Jebus!
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