Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:36 am

There is no single set of policies regarded as conservative because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time.
Thus conservatives from different parts of the world—each upholding their respective traditions—may disagree on a wide range of issues.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
I believe when discussing the above two terms, we should determine and differentiate the core from the fringe elements. I certainly do not agree with the theistic elements that is prevalent among the 'conservatives'.

From what I have read of Conservatives in USA, the Republicans [supposedly conservatives] are for the following;
civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender equality [not too much], racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

However the Democrats [Left] who are supposedly liberals do not support the encompassing 'freedom of speech' which I believe should carry the heaviest weightage for human values. Note those who critiqued Islam are terms racists and homophobes. There is Anifa using violence in preventing people from giving speeches they don't like.

As I see it, at present the Democrats are more emotional* than being rational and they do not encourage and accept debates.
Many Democrats are accusing opponents of being bigots, racism, Islamophobia out of contexts and with anger & violence.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:07 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:36 am
There is no single set of policies regarded as conservative because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time.
Thus conservatives from different parts of the world—each upholding their respective traditions—may disagree on a wide range of issues.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
I believe when discussing the above two terms, we should determine and differentiate the core from the fringe elements. I certainly do not agree with the theistic elements that is prevalent among the 'conservatives'.

From what I have read of Conservatives in USA, the Republicans [supposedly conservatives] are for the following;
civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender equality [not too much], racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

However the Democrats [Left] who are supposedly liberals do not support the encompassing 'freedom of speech' which I believe should carry the heaviest weightage for human values. Note those who critiqued Islam are terms racists and homophobes. There is Anifa using violence in preventing people from giving speeches they don't like.

As I see it, at present the Democrats are more emotional* than being rational and they do not encourage and accept debates.
Many Democrats are accusing opponents of being bigots, racism, Islamophobia out of contexts and with anger & violence.
You are spot on there. Americans are a confused lot. And not forgetting that the worst Southern racists were actually Democrats.

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henry quirk
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"Americans are a confused lot."

Post by henry quirk » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:08 pm

That is the first accurate assessment of Americans I've ever seen comin' from you, Veg.

You finally got it right.

Congrats.

FlashDangerpants
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:10 pm

gaffo wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:12 am
philosopher wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:07 pm
I'm living in Europe, and here the Conservatives extends far into the left-leaning parties, even socialist parties have right wing conservatives.
where are you?

Brexit? (Englander)?
I'm British, but I'm pretty sure "philosopher" is Scandinavian.
gaffo wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:12 am
<winding rant about potential UK territorial losses goes here>
Most of England would be perfectly happy for Ireland to reunite, and if the Scotts want independence, that's a shame but we don't really blame them. Our forebears sort of fucked theirs over long before we got to Africa and India to fuck those dudes over. We're a democracy these days, not a kingdom. If people in one region vote to split off, that's allowed. We don't have one of those constitutional sedition clauses that Spain has making such actions imprisonable (unless you blow shit up and stuff), nor do we make our schoolchildren stand up and waffle about one nation being indivisible every morning like some countries do.

It's a sort of shame that an attempt was made to discuss the philosophical validity of an argument presented to a philosophy forum... only to be turned into yet another display of belligerent jingoism on all sides. I assume this thread will go on the deletions pile soon. I suppose it won't be missed.

Reflex
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Reflex » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:52 pm

philosopher wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:21 pm

That's because Conservatives threaten everyone who disagree with their conservative opinions.
Are you kidding? Wanna compare? When was the last time a liberal speaker was shouted down on a college campus? Facebook is notorious for shutting down conservatives. Putting a MAGA sticker on a car is an invitation to trouble. Examples are endless.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:43 pm

Reflex wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:52 pm
philosopher wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:21 pm

That's because Conservatives threaten everyone who disagree with their conservative opinions.
Are you kidding? Wanna compare? When was the last time a liberal speaker was shouted down on a college campus? Facebook is notorious for shutting down conservatives. Putting a MAGA sticker on a car is an invitation to trouble. Examples are endless.
Oh the irony. If people are being shouted down on campuses, then the ones doing the 'shouting down' are not liberal. Which part of this is so hard for people (generally Americans, who started this downward spiral to illiteracy) to understand?

Reflex
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Reflex » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:19 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:43 pm
Reflex wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:52 pm
philosopher wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:21 pm

That's because Conservatives threaten everyone who disagree with their conservative opinions.
Are you kidding? Wanna compare? When was the last time a liberal speaker was shouted down on a college campus? Facebook is notorious for shutting down conservatives. Putting a MAGA sticker on a car is an invitation to trouble. Examples are endless.
Oh the irony. If people are being shouted down on campuses, then the ones doing the 'shouting down' are not liberal. Which part of this is so hard for people (generally Americans, who started this downward spiral to illiteracy) to understand?
Technically you’re right. They’re “leftists” (fascists), some of whom run as “liberal” Democrats.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:00 am

Reflex wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:19 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:43 pm
Reflex wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:52 pm


Are you kidding? Wanna compare? When was the last time a liberal speaker was shouted down on a college campus? Facebook is notorious for shutting down conservatives. Putting a MAGA sticker on a car is an invitation to trouble. Examples are endless.
Oh the irony. If people are being shouted down on campuses, then the ones doing the 'shouting down' are not liberal. Which part of this is so hard for people (generally Americans, who started this downward spiral to illiteracy) to understand?
Technically you’re right. They’re “leftists” (fascists), some of whom run as “liberal” Democrats.
Right. Because 'left wing' means 'fascist'. :roll:

Reflex
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by Reflex » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:01 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:00 am
Reflex wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:19 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:43 pm


Oh the irony. If people are being shouted down on campuses, then the ones doing the 'shouting down' are not liberal. Which part of this is so hard for people (generally Americans, who started this downward spiral to illiteracy) to understand?
Technically you’re right. They’re “leftists” (fascists), some of whom run as “liberal” Democrats.
Right. Because 'left wing' means 'fascist'. :roll:
Ironic, isn't it? They are what they oppose. (Antifa is a perfect example, not to mention countries like Venezuela.)

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:27 am

Reflex wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:01 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:00 am
Reflex wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:19 am


Technically you’re right. They’re “leftists” (fascists), some of whom run as “liberal” Democrats.
Right. Because 'left wing' means 'fascist'. :roll:
Ironic, isn't it? They are what they oppose. (Antifa is a perfect example, not to mention countries like Venezuela.)
Does everything have to be 'left' or 'right'? Why not 'rational versus irrational'? Educated, informed opinion versus blind belief? Science versus supersition?

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henry quirk
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"Does everything have to be 'left' or 'right'?"

Post by henry quirk » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:02 pm

In reality nuthin' is.

But: 'branding' works cuz tribalism (us vs them) runs deep.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: "Does everything have to be 'left' or 'right'?"

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:13 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:02 pm
In reality nuthin' is.

But: 'branding' works cuz tribalism (us vs them) runs deep.
True, but it works for 'leaders'. They can't have an educated population using critical thinking and logic--if they allowed that, then they wouldn't be able to get anyone to go to war for them.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:19 pm

Yep, same as it ever was.

Belinda
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Re: "Does everything have to be 'left' or 'right'?"

Post by Belinda » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:21 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:02 pm
In reality nuthin' is.

But: 'branding' works cuz tribalism (us vs them) runs deep.
"Runs deep" certainly must be reckoned with. However our species is famous for its adapability to new challenges. So, Henry, not to be too cynical about our chances of survival as a species.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:58 pm

I don 't think I'm bein' cynical. Just statin' a fact. Man generally is a tribal creature.

As for man's survival: I'm very optimistic, IF we get up and out. if we allow ourselves to remain dirtside, well, then I'm not so optimistic.

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