It's defeatist to presume that tribalism will win out over universalism. Universalism is not easy especially when one feels strong attachment to some tribe or other.henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:58 pm I don 't think I'm bein' cynical. Just statin' a fact. Man generally is a tribal creature.
As for man's survival: I'm very optimistic, IF we get up and out. if we allow ourselves to remain dirtside, well, then I'm not so optimistic.
Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives
Re:
- henry quirk
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"It's defeatist to presume that tribalism will win out over universalism."
Did I say tribalism wins out? Nope. I just made an observation about 'today'.
But, for the sake of argument: let's say tribalism wins out over 'universalism'.
So what?
We seem to have gotten pretty far along with tribalism: mebbe if it ain't broke we shouldn't try to fix it.
Did I say tribalism wins out? Nope. I just made an observation about 'today'.
But, for the sake of argument: let's say tribalism wins out over 'universalism'.
So what?
We seem to have gotten pretty far along with tribalism: mebbe if it ain't broke we shouldn't try to fix it.
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Tribalism is failing now that each country depends upon each other country. Nature knows no national boundaries and climate change affects everybody all over the world.henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:34 pm "It's defeatist to presume that tribalism will win out over universalism."
Did I say tribalism wins out? Nope. I just made an observation about 'today'.
But, for the sake of argument: let's say tribalism wins out over 'universalism'.
So what?
We seem to have gotten pretty far along with tribalism: mebbe if it ain't broke we shouldn't try to fix it.
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Re: Re:
The down side is that for every powerful institution that we have created to benefit is in the short term, it always comes to bite us in the ass in the long term. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that... It attracts precisely the kind of people who shouldn't be in power.
So we ought to abolish such institutions once they achieve their mandate. And yet - we don't.
- henry quirk
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Re: Re:
1. Tribalism as a critical necessary human instinct emerged out of Nature.Belinda wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:52 pmTribalism is failing now that each country depends upon each other country. Nature knows no national boundaries and climate change affects everybody all over the world.henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:34 pm "It's defeatist to presume that tribalism will win out over universalism."
Did I say tribalism wins out? Nope. I just made an observation about 'today'.
But, for the sake of argument: let's say tribalism wins out over 'universalism'.
So what?
We seem to have gotten pretty far along with tribalism: mebbe if it ain't broke we shouldn't try to fix it.
2. It is also Nature that creates invisible boundaries.
3. Thus it is nature [1 & 2] that creates national boundaries out of tribalism.
Tribalism is inherent and embedded within the DNA/RNA of all humans and to an extent still have limited use thus it difficult to get rid of it except to modulate it.
Tribalism [instinct] as with anger [emotion] should be dealt with as suggested by Aristotle,
- Anybody can become tribalistic [angry] - that is easy, but to be tribalistic
with the right person and
to the right degree and
at the right time and
for the right purpose, and
in the right way -
that is not within everybody's power and is not easy.
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Re: Re:
Your hypothesis ignores two key factors.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:00 am I believe the tribalistic impulse within should be suppressed and fully modulated in the future, but at present some degree of National tribalism is still essential until the majoirty of humans has the competency for universal co-operation.
1. Violence is the ultimate authority from which all other authority is derived. So who holds the monopoly on violence in your society?
2. Co-operation requires a common goal. What do you propose as our goal?
How do you ever seeing you and I co-operating on ANYTHING? I've seen how you think - I have no time for working with fools who don't understand risk management and only think short-term/small-scale. The only common goal I could share with you is if you were to make me tea.
Re: Why Liberals are better people than Conservatives
Henry Quirk wrote, quoting me:
Even if you knew that, which you don't, that's not sufficient reason to do nothing."climate change affects everybody all over the world."
Sure, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.
Re: Re:
That's a sweeping claim. I think of several institutions that fit your description and there are different remedies.So I don't really know what you mean.TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:43 pmThe down side is that for every powerful institution that we have created to benefit is in the short term, it always comes to bite us in the ass in the long term. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that... It attracts precisely the kind of people who shouldn't be in power.
So we ought to abolish such institutions once they achieve their mandate. And yet - we don't.
- henry quirk
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Even if you knew that, which you don't...
Go here...
https://wattsupwiththat.com/
...and read. Not just one or two pieces. Read till your eyes bleed.
...that's not sufficient reason to do nothing.
If I'm right and climate change is not being driven by human industry (but is, in fact, natural and normal), then what the hell are we supposed to do, Belinda?
In other words: if it ain't broke, how are we supposed to fix it?
Go here...
https://wattsupwiththat.com/
...and read. Not just one or two pieces. Read till your eyes bleed.
...that's not sufficient reason to do nothing.
If I'm right and climate change is not being driven by human industry (but is, in fact, natural and normal), then what the hell are we supposed to do, Belinda?
In other words: if it ain't broke, how are we supposed to fix it?
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Maybe global warming is, in fact, not driven by human industry. Maybe it’s natural and normal for the biosphere to eventually boil all life forms off the planet.henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:40 pm
If I'm right and climate change is not being driven by human industry (but is, in fact, natural and normal), then what the hell are we supposed to do, Belinda?
In other words: if it ain't broke, how are we supposed to fix it?
Thus the real question is: if it ain’t been broken by us, how are we supposed to fix it?
We can think globally and act locally: recycle, reuse, reduce.
- henry quirk
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"Maybe it’s natural and normal for the biosphere to eventually boil all life forms off the planet."
Hyperbole...c'mon, Common, you're better than that.
#
"Thus the real question is: if it ain’t been broken by us, how are we supposed to fix it?"
You can't fix what ain't broke. And fiddlin' with it is just gonna get it broke.
No, adapt as you can (and get up and out): that's your answer.
Hyperbole...c'mon, Common, you're better than that.
#
"Thus the real question is: if it ain’t been broken by us, how are we supposed to fix it?"
You can't fix what ain't broke. And fiddlin' with it is just gonna get it broke.
No, adapt as you can (and get up and out): that's your answer.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re:
Do you have any evidence to back that assertion up? I mean, it wouldn't be based on self-serving politics or anything would it?henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:40 pm Even if you knew that, which you don't...
Go here...
https://wattsupwiththat.com/
...and read. Not just one or two pieces. Read till your eyes bleed.
...that's not sufficient reason to do nothing.
If I'm right and climate change is not being driven by human industry (but is, in fact, natural and normal), then what the hell are we supposed to do, Belinda?
In other words: if it ain't broke, how are we supposed to fix it?
Gee, I wonder why Americans are the most hated people on the planet. It's a complete mystery.
- henry quirk
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- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: check out the link, veg...'nuff said
Well, there is rather more at stake if one side is wrong, than the other. If you 'deniers-of-the-bleeding-obvious' get your way and are wrong, then we are all dead. If the 'acceptors-of-the-bleeding-obvious' get their own way and turn out to be wrong (they haven't and they won't) then at least we would have begun to show a bit more respect for the only home we have, and learnt to have a bit of foresight and consideration for future generations.