Alinsky's Rules for Radicals

[Greta]

.

[henry quirk]

This...

I'd never heard of Saul Alinsky, but he sounds like my kinda bloke. I find myself in the unusual position of being grateful to Nick_A. Cheers Nick!

...is Uwot's.

Me: I know Saul...as I say: scum.

[uwot]

You mean like "promising a return to the vanished verities of yesterday" by wearing a baseball hat that says 'Make America Great Again'.

Make America Great Again refers mainly to economic prosperity.

Fair enough.

The hat is not an upward economic indicator by itself, but maybe it will be in the future, just because it’s attached to Trump.*
On the other hand, the big lie is forever attached to Obama (If you like your doctor and your health plan, you can keep them both. Period.)
That boldfaced lie isn’t even condemned by the Alinskites who view the world in terms of, by any means necessary.
By any means necessary is the same view as Sharia taqiya.
* Whatever goes up, goes down.

Well yeah, but then Trump promised to eliminate national debt in 8 years and grow the economy by 6% a year. Sounds great and maybe some people believed him, maybe even Trump did, but it isn't happening and isn't going to. Dunno if you have the same joke in the US:
How do you know if a politician is lying?
His lips move.

[henry quirk]

Nick, correct me if I'm wrong.

The Great Beast is the vast memetic complex infecting a huge number of folks. It's a memeplex that deingrates the individual, reduces him to 'cog', while elevating government (governors) up beyond its humble place as instrument to a place where it, government, is a nearly deific 'being' from which all extends and to which all is owed.

The Great Beast could also refer to Satan.

How's that, Nick?

[uwot]

This...

I'd never heard of Saul Alinsky, but he sounds like my kinda bloke. I find myself in the unusual position of being grateful to Nick_A. Cheers Nick!

...is Uwot's.

Guilty!

Me: I know Saul...as I say: scum.

Well, I've don't know much about him, but anyone who "once threatened to stage a "fart in" is ok by me.

[Greta]

.
The OP is a fair summary of what appears to be rapidly growing right wing political correctness and retreat from reason. There is nothing interesting or philosophically relevant there at all. Just a political rant.

You ideally should go to Facebook or Twitter if that's your game rather than screwing up a philosophy forum.
.

Greta looking through the looking glass where everything is perceived backwards.

So Nick had no Republican implication in his first post?

More cheap games by you. Duh.

[henry quirk]

Saul was scum but he provided an outline for, as I say up-thread, America's dismantling (a process some folks in this thread would probably recast as 'America's [much needed] *reformation'). Usin' Saul's 'checklist, I've ticked off the items won by the commies (and, yeah, it's the friggin' commies, no matter what moniker they hide behind) and those kept by the non-commies.

Here it is...


1) Healthcare– Control healthcare and you control the people

While not 'universal' and 'single-sourced' the industry is largely in the hands of regulators, so: commies win.


2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

This is institutionalzed, has been for decades, so: commies win.


3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

Keynes shoulda been shot. This too is instituionalzed, so: commies win.


4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

Despite multi-pronged efforts, this one is still in the land of 'what if', so: fuck you, commies.


5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income)

Another institution, so: commies win


6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

Formal, traditional, education is done for, but the net is still open (you can find Max Stirner easy-peasy), so: partial win for the commies.


7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools

Religion is persistent. It keeps rearin' up in the oddest places, so: partial win for the commies.


8 Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Institutionalized, so: win for the commies.


"why don't people see the danger of adopting them?"

Incrementalism: boil the frog without it knowin' diddly.


...pretty much the only thing the Great Beast hasn't shackled is GUN.

'oh noes!' sez commie cat, 'non-cogs make with the boom sticks!'

Yes, 'boom sticks' and helicopter rides: a day at fair.

Comments?









*America does indeed need a reformation, a dismantling...strip away the horseshit, install the watchman

[henry quirk]

That's okay, Uwot.

You're Mr. Science so I can forgive your commie leanings.

[uwot]

Comments?

I dunno, I think he was taking the piss.

*America does indeed need a reformation, a dismantling...strip away the horseshit, install the watchman

I think that's true in most places, although I'd change 'the watchman' to meritocrats.

[uwot]

That's okay, Uwot.

You're Mr. Science so I can forgive your commie leanings.

Well, I've never thought of myself as a communist; except maybe in my teens, when I thought it might get me laid, but cheers anyway. It's just things like health, education, defence, infrastructure, emergency services and whatnot, which I think need at least some organisation on at least some scale.

[Greta]

"Commies" as described do not actually exist any more. You seem to be still living in the cold war, Henry. It's over. Russia won and they now control the US political process, didn't you hear? Have you finished with the civil war or are you still a keen confederate?

The three most states closest to communism (while actually just being plutocracies in disguise) are NK, China and Russia, who under your favourite politician have become the US's best international relationships along with little Australia.

There are almost no Communists in the US. Many people favour some level of socialism, usually as long as the benefits flow more to them than to others. Then they make up all manner of rationalisations to cover the the fact that they are just being one more selfish and manipulative ape.

However, others simply observe the logic that if governments and corporations treat their people well then they have better citizens with which to deal, as opposed to traumatised saboteurs. This is where the US is falling down, due to short-sightedness, no doubt at least in part due to the length of electoral terms.

There is an intrinsic problem in the system because short terms of office coupled with long lag times for policies to take effect have created a disincentive to think long term, or to embark in any significant nation building or development.

Yet the limitations, especially the US limit of two terms, reduces the chance of dictatorship (or at least it did until the recent spate of precedents in the US removed some important checks and balances). In Australia governments can keep winning four year terms forever but the intensity of the work and media scrutiny is such that after two terms governments are exhausted and increasingly dysfunctional. Four terms would seem impossible without a mature handover of power - but once leaders enjoy power for a term or two they almost never give it up willingly.

[henry quirk]

"I dunno, I think he was taking the piss."

Mebbe so...if so, he was uncannily accurate in his aim.

#

"I think that's true in most places, although I'd change 'the watchman' to meritocrats."

I can see the merit in that.

Me: I just wanna be left alone to sink or rise as I will. That means I wanna cops to investigate my complaints (so I don't have to hunt down the man who stole my water), courts (to prosecute that dirty water thief), and a millitary (to keep the commie hordes out). Pay for it all with an seasonal lottery or some such.

And overseeing it all: the militia (people like me...with guns...and guns...and mebbe helicopters).

[henry quirk]

"Well, I've never thought of myself as a communist"

Mebbe you're just a sympathizer...nuthin' a lil deprogramming can't cure.

#

"except maybe in my teens, when I thought it might get me laid"

HA!

#

"It's just things like health, education, defence, infrastructure, emergency services and whatnot, which I think need at least some organisation on at least some scale."

And I get that. I just think that organizin' ought to happen on the ground floor, not up in the penthouse, and it ought to be voluntary, not mandated.

Eminent domain, for example. If my house sits in the middle of some 'neccessary' improvement, make me an offer. If it's a good one, mebbe I'll take you up on it. If it's crappy, then go pound sand. Takin' my shit without my agreement is friggin' theft.

[henry quirk]

"Commies" as described do not actually exist any more.

The commies would disagree (if they'd drop the masks and stand out plain [oh, wait, I'm talkin' to one now...you do exist, Greta]).

#

"Many people favour some level of socialism"

Poor commie dupes...ignorant slobs...they'll enjoy the the helicopter rides.

[Greta]

"Commies" as described do not actually exist any more.

The commies would disagree (if they'd drop the masks and stand out plain [oh, wait, I'm talkin' to one now...you do exist, Greta]).

The standard here is falling rapidly. The few true communists, such as the lobby groups that consistently wreck the credibility of legitimate public demonstrations with bad behaviour, are not worth speaking about.

Me? I am actually a keen successful capitalist, barely even a socialist, let alone a communist. I don't expect a retraction as online political warriors such as yourself never admit mistakes. I am certainly not a communist; it's an old idealistic system that didn't work, like theistic caliphates - another bad way to run a nation.

So I am not even a socialist but I do like logic and reason. Thus I can't see the sense of societies stymieing their own capacity to function by ignoring expert advice. Why bother studying topics for decades if the uneducated have the power to dismiss whatever is said?

Nor is there any sense or morality in grinding those at the bottom into the dust. The best thing a society can do for itself is to introduce universal free higher education. This has nothing to do with ideology - you simply remove impediments to allowing people to improve themselves and thus contribute.

The idea is to get societies to function well. If you think that the divisions being fostered by Trump and co in the US are going to make America Greta Again, forget it. That level of division is simply sowing the seeds of a crash, perhaps due in the not too distant future.