Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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henry quirk
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"i only hope most of us will be on our side in this war."

Post by henry quirk » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:30 am

I think, when the shit hits the fan, the broad middle of the country will do what needs to done, which is to say: yeah, we win.

gaffo
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by gaffo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:33 am

I'm glad you support the BoR Harry - though we are on opposite sides politically, the BoR precepts transends "left-right" conventional terms.

to those that value Rule of Law over Party.

or more simply Country over Party.

if you do really do value our Bor, then i count you as a brother and on my side in this fight.

my fav amendment is the 9th (support for Natural Law/Jury Power rights), then the 10th as a distant second, 1st a more distant third.

.............. I still need to buy a few "support 3rd amendment" bumper stickers though. ;-).

................

what is your fav amendment of the BoR and why so?

gaffo
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Re: "i only hope most of us will be on our side in this war."

Post by gaffo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:36 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:30 am
I think, when the shit hits the fan, the broad middle of the country will do what needs to done, which is to say: yeah, we win.
If this occurs, i only hope those on "our side" also value the BoR - and not just "blind rage" to destroy, and so just part of the mob - like the other side - with no regard to our Constutition/rule of law.

gaffo
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by gaffo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:38 am

I called you Harry - sorry Henry ;-/.

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henry quirk
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"what is your fav amendment of the BoR and why so?"

Post by henry quirk » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:49 am

The 2nd.

Without the capacity to self-defend the others carry no weight.

#

"i only hope those on "our side" also value the BoR - and not just "blind rage" to destroy"

I have no doubt there'll be opportunistic types in the mix, folks lookin' to profit in some way.

I reckon they can take helicopter rides too.

#

"I called you Harry - sorry Henry ;-/."

Don't worry about it.

gaffo
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Re: "what is your fav amendment of the BoR and why so?"

Post by gaffo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:03 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:49 am
The 2nd.

Without the capacity to self-defend the others carry no weight.

#

"i only hope those on "our side" also value the BoR - and not just "blind rage" to destroy"

I have no doubt there'll be opportunistic types in the mix, folks lookin' to profit in some way.

I reckon they can take helicopter rides too.

#

"I called you Harry - sorry Henry ;-/."

Don't worry about it.
thanks for reply - i value discussion over invective.

I do value our 2nd - though do not have a gun (I'm a depressive type and would not trust myself with a gun) - but nt to the level you do (from your reply to me you think our 2nd would be able to defend agianst the heavy armament of our goverment? - i do not think so).

i personally think the 2nd is redundant from "common law" veiwpoint.

it was legal to own guns in 1600's as British/Australian/NZ colonists.........and as Englishmen - same in 1700's - all prior to this common law right being codified in our BoR's 2nd.

same in the 19th and 20th century.


I'm politically minded but not partisan (never voted for Clinton - voted for Ron Paul in 88 (Rand is a Rebulican shill and not his father!), would have voted for McCain in 2000 (but not in 2008 - the man changed) - and voted for Obama twice). Been a registered independent since the 1980's - when we were all of 2-pecent (now 20? or so).

ok, you value the 2nd the most - what about the next two or so you value as runner ups, and why so?

I value discussion, so lets discuss Sir!

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:30 am

"I do value our 2nd - though do not have a gun (I'm a depressive type and would not trust myself with a gun)"

You're wise to know your limits.

#

"you think our 2nd would be able to defend agianst the heavy armament of our goverment? - i do not think so"

Well, for one, a significant number of millitary folks are on our side, sworn to defend the Constitution, not a commie interpretation of the Constitution, and for another, the Vietnamese have written the playbook on guerrilla antics.

I don't think things will be as slanted as you may think.

I sincerely hope we don't have to find out who is right.

#

"ok, you value the 2nd the most - what about the next two or so you value as runner ups, and why so?"

Well, the rest stand as equally important to me. But, as an advocate of a minimal, watchman, set-up, I have some ideas on how to tighten up and streamline the whole affair, thing is, for me, it's late and my head is tired.

Tell you what, let's pick this up tomorrow when I'm fresh.

gaffo
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Re:

Post by gaffo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:31 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:30 am
"I do value our 2nd - though do not have a gun (I'm a depressive type and would not trust myself with a gun)"

You're wise to know your limits.

#

"you think our 2nd would be able to defend agianst the heavy armament of our goverment? - i do not think so"

Well, for one, a significant number of millitary folks are on our side, sworn to defend the Constitution, not a commie interpretation of the Constitution, and for another, the Vietnamese have written the playbook on guerrilla antics.

I don't think things will be as slanted as you may think.

I sincerely hope we don't have to find out who is right.

#

"ok, you value the 2nd the most - what about the next two or so you value as runner ups, and why so?"

Well, the rest stand as equally important to me. But, as an advocate of a minimal, watchman, set-up, I have some ideas on how to tighten up and streamline the whole affair, thing is, for me, it's late and my head is tired.

Tell you what, let's pick this up tomorrow when I'm fresh.

sounds like a plan - see you next week (when i have my next set of beers - lol).

and don't forget to defend the 3rd Amendment! - no quartering of troops in your/my house!!!!!!!!

gaffo
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by gaffo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:36 am

adendum:

I really do love the 9th the most - ya i know due to its wording being so vague its damn near useless in legal defense.

i think it was used in the interacial marriage case (Loving vs Virginia) - as in "freedom of association" (liberty to pick your friends (and wife)) - without government forbidding your pool of choices.


........thinking about it - i guess India would be damn near in violation (and we would be if we had a similar social culture backed by our government) of the 9th with thier untouchables.

gaffo
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by gaffo » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:41 am

oh ya, the right of Marriage would be one of the unammed rights that the 9th refers to.

as would be one's choice of friends

and of course right to kill in self defence

and also a right (power more aptly - for said power transends the State/rights of it subjects - literally a power outside of the State) as a juror to ignore the law and nullify (aquit) the accused according to personal conscience.

-----all these rights predate the Constitution and were affirmed as rights long before the creation of America.


first three date to thousands of years ago, the jury one dates to 800 AD via Nordic law - adopted/affirmed by England via King Canute.

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henry quirk
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"see you next week (when i have my next set of beers - lol)."

Post by henry quirk » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Good deal.

Skip
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by Skip » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:38 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:24 am
I'm just glad that there will now be an FBI investigation of Kananaugh - as there should have been from day one.
Oh, right. A controlled, time-limited investigation, with no access to previous records or complainants.

Guy's a party toady who should never have been eligible, even if he's not guilty of the other charges.
But, hey! At least a right-wing-loaded supreme court will prevent any liberal dictatorship.

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henry quirk
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"Oh, right. A controlled, time-limited investigation, with no access to previous records or complainants."

Post by henry quirk » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:28 am

As far as I know, the only thing you got right is the time limit.

The FBI is currently empowered to investigate fully, meanin' they have full access to any-one or -thing relevant to the allegations.

#

"Guy's a party toady"

Absolutely. Better a repub lackey than a Dem lickspittle.

gaffo
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by gaffo » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:36 pm

Skip wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:38 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:24 am
I'm just glad that there will now be an FBI investigation of Kananaugh - as there should have been from day one.
Oh, right. A controlled, time-limited investigation, with no access to previous records or complainants.

Guy's a party toady who should never have been eligible, even if he's not guilty of the other charges.
But, hey! At least a right-wing-loaded supreme court will prevent any liberal dictatorship.
Repugs should have done the right thing - as they did 25 yrs ago - and ordered an FBI invesigation a month ago.

they didn't due to being a diks and wanting to push his confirmation through without regard to objective-proper procedure.

Flake did the right thing - and now we have on going proper investigation that should have been done a month ago.

---as for time limit --FBI knows their job - 1 week is reasonable.

Look i don't like the guy either! - i don't think he is a rapist, but think he was sexually agressive (and a drunkenly dickish overal as a 20 something) - i also (and more importantly to me) think his Tirade about a "clinton/dems conspiracy" rant was utterly reprehensible and that conspiracy mindset (at home on the Faux News headquarters) - makes him dissquallified to be placed on the SC in my mind (but Repubs in Senate love him all the more for the same reasons!).

--------------though unqualifed for said views - legal and i will have to except (assuming the FBI does not find evidence Kavenaugh is a rapist) his confirmation though reprensible for his partican-conspiratorial views - is within the Rule of Law.

so suck it up. man up.

2-cents.

gaffo
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Re: "Oh, right. A controlled, time-limited investigation, with no access to previous records or complainants."

Post by gaffo » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:49 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:28 am

"Guy's a party toady"

Absolutely. Better a repub lackey than a Dem lickspittle.
I'd pefer one outside of either Party.

our Constitution is older than both Parties.

I'd prefer a SC Justice that ignores their party affiliation, loves our Constitution, has a personal and educated viewpoint on it, and is willing to be Humble enough to view that that knowledge is limited and so willing to learn more from others Justices on the bench for personal enlightenment upon understanding said Constitution.

I do not think Kavanough is such a man (he seems partisan).

Gorsich maybe - i'm, willing to give him a chance though liberal and he conservative (some conservative views i do affirm if they are not partisan - and honestly held).

2-cents.

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