Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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gaffo
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Re: "do you care to disscuss why you like all the things i hate?"

Post by gaffo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:18 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:23 pm
Sure.

Tell me why you value what you value and I'll tell why I don't value those things.
ok

as stated above Trump hates what I value, and what I value are: (not in order of primacy - just a list - too tired to order the list in order of primacy).

1. an International code of conduct/rule of law/collective security treaties/ and related organizations (NATO, UN, EU, etc) - this "system of conduct/mechinery" has kept WW3 from happening since 1946.

2. National Rule of Law - Checks and Balences (that means a Congress oversight of exactuvie rule by Americans not pussies placing their Party of country when it looks like tRump is a manchurian candidate and the "oversight" from the Retardiklans is "investigating the investigators! - instead of the POTUS and Russia! (Nunes is bought out - have no doubt like the nutbagger in UK (Farage) he got a nice villa somewhere via russian mob money. clearly his is compromised, not only chose Party over Country, but Russia over America.

3. I reject your nihilstic-animalistic "survival of the fitest" "dog eat dog" "i got mine fuck you" mindset. that is the mindset of the what mandkind lived with from 1,000,000 yr ago to around 2000 yrs ago, then we slowly started building mentalities/conduct/comport that was less animalistic, up to today (well up to 2016 or so - then we slid down a couple of centuries in the last 2 yrs).

4. I am better than your vision of morality - as are 3/4 of the rest of us. We reject "mine mine mine", "strongman wins" garbage. we affirm the Rule of Law, Due Process, Balances of Powers, Checks and Balences, International Treaties, International Law. (civilized behavior in otherwords)

such has kept (and keeps) the peace.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:55 pm

1. an International code of conduct/rule of law/collective security treaties/ and related organizations (NATO, UN, EU, etc) - this "system of conduct/mechinery" has kept WW3 from happening since 1946.

I'm all for that...just don't see why the U.S. has to be neutered in the process. As I told the long-dead Obvious Leo: As an American, my fortunes are intertwined with America's. It's my best interest the U.S. do well (even when it's not necessarily doin' 'good'). The U.S. ain't perfect and -- absolutely -- 'we' got blood on our hands, but we're far more benign than some of the other players.

#

2. National Rule of Law - Checks and Balences (that means a Congress oversight of exactuvie rule by Americans not pussies placing their Party of country when it looks like tRump is a manchurian candidate and the "oversight" from the Retardiklans is "investigating the investigators! - instead of the POTUS and Russia! (Nunes is bought out - have no doubt like the nutbagger in UK (Farage) he got a nice villa somewhere via russian mob money. clearly his is compromised, not only chose Party over Country, but Russia over America.

What exactly has Trump done to violate rule of law?

#

3. I reject your nihilstic-animalistic "survival of the fitest" "dog eat dog" "i got mine fuck you" mindset. that is the mindset of the what mandkind lived with from 1,000,000 yr ago to around 2000 yrs ago, then we slowly started building mentalities/conduct/comport that was less animalistic, up to today (well up to 2016 or so - then we slid down a couple of centuries in the last 2 yrs).

You're assessment of my view is off the mark. I just want to be left alone. Not seein' how that translates into a "nihilstic-animalistic "survival of the fitest" "dog eat dog" "i got mine fuck you" mindset".

#

4. I am better than your vision of morality - as are 3/4 of the rest of us. We reject "mine mine mine", "strongman wins" garbage. we affirm the Rule of Law, Due Process, Balances of Powers, Checks and Balences, International Treaties, International Law. (civilized behavior in otherwords)

Yeah, I think you're mis-categorizing me in a large way.

#

"such has kept (and keeps) the peace."

Peace is great, is preferable, but not at the cost of individual autonomy.

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henry quirk
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hypocrisy

Post by henry quirk » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:07 pm

"we affirm the Rule of Law, Due Process, Balances of Powers, Checks and Balences, International Treaties, International Law."

These are all good things...too bad the Democrats don't believe they apply to everyone, across the board, at all times...too bad you don't either.

gaffo
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by gaffo » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:40 am

I am not a hypocrite.

maybe i missattributed your views of nihalism as those of trumpites. if you affirm and value concepts such as Rule of Law, instead of fuck Rule of Law, I want a Strongman! - then I was wrong in mischaracterizing your views (I thought you valued "Strongman! - survival of the animals in the cage - over ordered conduct such as treaties, governmental powers and checks of there-in and between).

As for Trump - I do not convict - until Mueller is done. I assume innocence (as is proper in our Brit Common Law for the last 250 yrs) until shown otherwise.

gaffo
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Re:

Post by gaffo » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:55 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:55 pm

Peace is great, is preferable, but not at the cost of individual autonomy.
agreed.

do you affirm FIJA.org mission? the right of a juror to think the accused is guilty, but to rule to acquit due the a law (as judged by said juror) violated as unworthy to support? - even morally right to oppose?


I do Jury Power (Jury Pardon/Jury Nullification) - removed Slavery (via Fugitive Slave Laws) to some degree (a war did the rest), Drug Laws today -sme deal (not a fan of weed personally, but others are - and so jurors ignore the laws and soon "the state" sees the folly of accusing stoned folks - and weed become legalized via the toothless "war on drugs" due to Jury Power. a Power of the People.

one outside of any Power of the State.

- you can keep your weed. I got stoned with some weakish stuff 2 weeks ago (free- offered) - first time since 18 yrs prior (then free-offered also).............never liked it, 18 yrs later, still don't. offered the same paranoia and dumbness - no talking. no thanks.

I''ll take the drink - it make me the shell incased introvert more outgoing - and why i'm here - verse weed - which would encase/fossilized my introversion to living in a bunker until the next eon.

lol

but I support Jury Power and legalization of weed via that method since the 1980's - regardless of my personal dislike of weed.

- acid or coke? - oh ya much better! but not likely either will be legal anytime soon sadly.

gaffo
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by gaffo » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:12 am

just as a side not: (yes i wondered about this too - and 18 yrs is a long enough span if time IMO to determine the answer (for me at least).

question - does exposure to weed change the brain? or does that exposure wear off so that the brain returns to original "virgin state"

I think the former.

It took me 7 joins - i.e. 7 nights - one a month or so - before I got stoned when in High School. I.e, for 7 months - once a month - sitting and smoking a join - i NOTHIN! - no high, no nothin! - 7th's try bombed out of my head (others of course got stoned the other proir 6 times being "veterins").

Well, whatever pot did to my brain 35-20 yrs ago was permanent, because I got stoned the first time - not the seventh - all these decades later ;-/.

just my 2cents/personal observation.

BTW many folks get stoned on the first or second try - some do not until several joints later (like me) - so there is some brain chemestry involved here i think.

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henry quirk
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three things

Post by henry quirk » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm

I 'affirm' those principles that allow folks to live together, or apart, peaceably.

For me, the sum of those principles (The One and Only Law as I call it elsewhere) is: 'mind your own business, keep your hands to yourself, or else'.

Such a construct includes the following...

'Self and property are sacred'.

'Self-defense and common defense are a justification for violence.'

'A contract is a contract.'

I advocate for the Night Watchman model: minimal and sensible police, courts, and military (and a civillian militia to counter any and all should any or all move from being 'minimal and sensible').

So, no, I don't favor nihilism (I favor self-direction); I don't favor 'fuck Rule of Law, I want a Strongman!' (I favor self-reliance); I don't favor 'survival of the animals in the cage' (I favor self-responsibility).

#

"As for Trump - I do not convict - until Mueller is done. I assume innocence (as is proper in our Brit Common Law for the last 250 yrs) until shown otherwise."

You might wanna read some of your previous posts in this thread, then, cuz you really come across as having convicted him (in your head).

#

I don't wanna talk about dope. My drugs of choice are coffee and cigarettes (lots and lots of both). Anything else is outside my narrow 'pharmaceutical' interest.

gaffo
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Re: three things

Post by gaffo » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:46 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
I 'affirm' those principles that allow folks to live together, or apart, peaceably.
as I.


henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
For me, the sum of those principles (The One and Only Law as I call it elsewhere) is: 'mind your own business, keep your hands to yourself, or else'.

I lived the "cave life" from 98-02 -pure hermit afraid to leave my apt, first due to depression, then latter due to fear to be outside.

agorepghobic(sp).


being unemployed, thinking i was worthless.....had much fear, and later added to the fear, anger.

both are not worthy - but nec in this life - in their measure (my prob was my distorted view of their worth/measure).

I got a job and lost my anger and fear (I thnk your God)

and i do! - I'm an atheist, but thankful.

those were bad times, by grace of your god (or just time/happenstance - i weathered through it).


henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
Such a construct includes the following...

'Self and property are sacred'.

'Self-defense and common defense are a justification for violence.'

'A contract is a contract.'
agreed.

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
I advocate for the Night Watchman model: minimal and sensible police, courts, and military (and a civillian militia to counter any and all should any or all move from being 'minimal and sensible').
comic book (my bad "Graphic novel")?????????

not into such stuff so ignorant of..........

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
So, no, I don't favor nihilism (I favor self-direction);
good!
henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
I don't favor 'fuck Rule of Law, I want a Strongman!' (I favor self-reliance);
?? you value strongmen or rule of law?

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
I don't favor 'survival of the animals in the cage' (I favor self-responsibility).
as do i.
henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
"As for Trump - I do not convict - until Mueller is done. I assume innocence (as is proper in our Brit Common Law for the last 250 yrs) until shown otherwise."

You might wanna read some of your previous posts in this thread, then, cuz you really come across as having convicted him (in your head).
I admit a bias in thought - not action though.

there is a difference, and value Mueller's findings over my preconsceived bias.

if Mueller finds Trump innocent, i will concure - and not make up BS to validate any bias about Trump.

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm
I don't wanna talk about dope. My drugs of choice are coffee and cigarettes (lots and lots of both). Anything else is outside my narrow 'pharmaceutical' interest.
understood.

I thank you for reply and welcome more about your views of "Self reliance" you have Sir.........some of which i know i do agree with and some i do not - per the particulars?

gaffo
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Re: Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

Post by gaffo » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:58 am

Can there be such a thing as a "Liberal Dictatorship"?

nope.

as answered prior weeks ago.

Walker
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Re: Re:

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:04 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:23 am
henry quirk wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:18 pm
Skip,

Ssems to me Trump is doin' exactly what I hired him to do. The consequences of Trump, as president, are exactly what I expected.

I've yet to see a downside to Trump as prez.

You do, I guess.

Tell me your objections.
I'm not Skip - but would like to reply to your inquiry.

I do think Trump colluded with Russia prior to the election (I think he got information about emails/etc (us confidential info) from Russian hackers - in order to win the election). I will await Mueller to verify if my suspicions are right here (IF he did - that Sir is Treason).

I think Trump lacks both the judgment and the character to be our president. His judgement is full on ADHD (all over the place from one day to the next), his character is......well refer to his Tweets for that.

I think his lack of character is infectious and give the rest of some of us to act and say stuff that he does (and why all the closet Racists are now out of the closet) - this is cheapening America - making us mean in spirit.

I think he disregards nor values the role of Global alliences (bodies like the EU/UN/NATO and our relations with our allies) such things i personally value as serving the role of makeing our world more stable and predictable (International Rule of Law is what i'm talking about). convetionally expected conduct.

I think Trump is enriching himself in the office - at our taxpayer expence. from charging us for using personal bodyguards to his Mara Largo excersions.

now we see him weak in the whole assumed killing/dissmembering of an American Resident by the Saudis (becasue he values $$ over life/rule of law/cizilized conduct ------anything for a buck (he has 9 properties in Sauid Arabia (the whole "we will lose 110 billion".is a ruse, HE will lose a few 100 million personally - that is all he cares about.
I think you're wrong, gaffo.

No more indictments.

That won't stop the psychotic Left (unable to recognize reality).

gaffo
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Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Re:

Post by gaffo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:42 am

Walker wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:04 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:23 am
henry quirk wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:18 pm
Skip,

Ssems to me Trump is doin' exactly what I hired him to do. The consequences of Trump, as president, are exactly what I expected.

I've yet to see a downside to Trump as prez.

You do, I guess.

Tell me your objections.
I'm not Skip - but would like to reply to your inquiry.

I do think Trump colluded with Russia prior to the election (I think he got information about emails/etc (us confidential info) from Russian hackers - in order to win the election). I will await Mueller to verify if my suspicions are right here (IF he did - that Sir is Treason).

I think Trump lacks both the judgment and the character to be our president. His judgement is full on ADHD (all over the place from one day to the next), his character is......well refer to his Tweets for that.

I think his lack of character is infectious and give the rest of some of us to act and say stuff that he does (and why all the closet Racists are now out of the closet) - this is cheapening America - making us mean in spirit.

I think he disregards nor values the role of Global alliences (bodies like the EU/UN/NATO and our relations with our allies) such things i personally value as serving the role of makeing our world more stable and predictable (International Rule of Law is what i'm talking about). convetionally expected conduct.

I think Trump is enriching himself in the office - at our taxpayer expence. from charging us for using personal bodyguards to his Mara Largo excersions.

now we see him weak in the whole assumed killing/dissmembering of an American Resident by the Saudis (becasue he values $$ over life/rule of law/cizilized conduct ------anything for a buck (he has 9 properties in Sauid Arabia (the whole "we will lose 110 billion".is a ruse, HE will lose a few 100 million personally - that is all he cares about.
I think you're wrong, gaffo.

No more indictments.

That won't stop the psychotic Left (unable to recognize reality).
we agree to dissagree concerning Trumps character and danger to our Republic.

sadly it looks like no more indictments, i though don Jr would get one, but it looks not to be. A support Mueler is an honest and competent cop, so abide by his findings. perhaps he found some smoke, but no gun to charge the parties?

either way, i will accept his findings/lack of - as a proper investigation.

I'm disapointed, but oh well.
.........

I'm a "leftie" -center left 70's dem (not PC/identity pol type), most "lefties" are reasonable and not psychotic, as is the same for "righties" (only the minority of righties are Reichies).

Don't fall into B/W thinking, most of us are the silent majority - moderates, left and right.

the minority nutters just shout louder to make their numbers seem larger than they are.

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