Death of a Nation??

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gaffo
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by gaffo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:17 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am

It is claimed the Democrats were the original KKK and slave owners.
Is this true?
I know history, and so no Democrats did not invent slavery, the Federalists and later Whigs and Dems inherited it.

BTW Lincoln did not care about slavery in the least (union congress pressed him to the issue of emancipation 2 yrs into the civil war).

Lincoln's Enacipation Procalimation - EXCLUDED (hypocrisy much?) TWO Slave Hodling state of the Union - Delaware and Maryland...................yep, that means Slaves were legal in those two union states during the entire Civil War.

gaffo
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by gaffo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:19 am

Impenitent wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:17 am


as much as the american left wishes to deny it, historically it is true

-Imp
nope. history is more compex. near all whigs (as were Dems) slavers, the former were incorporated into the Republican Party.

Federalists are the first Slavers.

history is more complex than you wish it to be.

gaffo
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by gaffo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:29 am

-1- wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:33 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:15 pm
Abraham Lincoln wrote:I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; I am not, nor ever have been, a member of the Communist Party of America; I am not, nor ever have been, a card-carrying member of the American Bolshevik Marxist-Leninist party; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. In short: Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come n join the Nazi party.
I like this quote.

Not for its racism, but for uncovering hard-hitting historical facts.

Down with racism, sexism (except for sex, of course, sloppy, wet kisses, holding hands, watching the full moon while cuddling in a field of heathers, feeling her up, bjs, anal penetration and forced enemas), specisism, vitalism, materialism (opposed to supernaturalism)!
Lincoln has been re-invented as a saint - "the victors get to re=write history".

Lincoln cared about ONE thing!!!!!!!!! - preserving the Union (if it meant ingoring the right of states to leave the union and use the articles of confederation to champion his cause so me it! - if it meant the contunuation of slavery - again so be it).

again, as state above in prior post - slavery was fully legal with lincoln's blessing in two Union State (hey its all good as long as they stay in the Union!).

Delaware/Maryland......

read the emacipation proclomation - refers to "States in rebellion" not the above two slave states not in rebellion!


and so plantation owners owned and beat their slaves with lincoln's affirmation for two more years AFTER said proclamation!

lincoln is overatted asshole.

give me washington/madison over that hypocrite.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:37 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:05 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:48 am
Here is one strong negative critique of the "Death of a Nation"
https://variety.com/2018/film/reviews/d ... 202890451/
The guy writing that review would appear to have taken the attitude I would have had I submitted to your demands that I watch it, it's argued from a ridiculous position which can only bring forth partisan nonsense and utter bullshit.

The review does mention the Southern strategy and the Southern Democrats though, just like I did. So now you know a couple of topics you can research to start looking for answers to this absurd farce.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:48 am
Reading the comments from both sides below the article is also interesting.
Ok. I just scanned them and am less impressed, but whatever.
I would suggest finding much better material to work with before trying to get taken seriously.

I'm not impressed by the implicit suggestion that all points of view are equally valid, when some of those views are idiot conspiracy theories constructed out of cherry picked data.
I noted Dinesh wrote a book that has evidences [his] to support his views.
I expect his views will be disputed but at least he did lay down the evidences for consideration and debate.

Death of a Nation: Plantation Politics and the Making of the Democratic Party
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Nation-Pla ... 1250163773

Note 82% of the 68 reviews are 5 stars.
I believe these are republicans.
The point is there is a voice and acceptance of his presentation thus an independent person [like me] cannot simply ignore but has to weigh the views from both sides.
Thus this discussion is relevant for this Philosophical Forum.

gaffo
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Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by gaffo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:37 am

an aside, BTW the 14th amendment was never legally ratified. NJ senator was forcably removed before he could vote - he was the 1 needed to make a 3/4er's ratification and thus legal.

i have nothing against the 14th - though it only re-affirms the 9th - only wished that is was legally ratified ;-/.

its all history now and the courst from last century have stated "its ratified".

i understand, though don't like it.

prefer the rule of law myself.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:00 am

gaffo wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:17 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am

It is claimed the Democrats were the original KKK and slave owners.
Is this true?
I know history, and so no Democrats did not invent slavery, the Federalists and later Whigs and Dems inherited it.

BTW Lincoln did not care about slavery in the least (union congress pressed him to the issue of emancipation 2 yrs into the civil war).

Lincoln's Enacipation Procalimation - EXCLUDED (hypocrisy much?) TWO Slave Hodling state of the Union - Delaware and Maryland...................yep, that means Slaves were legal in those two union states during the entire Civil War.
What sort of confidence level do you have on your views? 20%, 50%, 75% or 90%.

I would say my confidence level on American Political History would be 5%.

I am well aware to increase one confidence level one will have to put in a lot of work to research on the historical materials.

To achieve 90% confidence level one will have to do a PhD on American Political History [no guarantee] and if autodidact will have to do similar amount or more of work by a PhD.

For example I would dare to say my confidence level on my view of Kant's Philosophy is >80% because I have put in the necessary effort.

So what is your confidence level of you views on American Political History related this issue?

gaffo
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by gaffo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:04 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:00 am
gaffo wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:17 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am

It is claimed the Democrats were the original KKK and slave owners.
Is this true?
I know history, and so no Democrats did not invent slavery, the Federalists and later Whigs and Dems inherited it.

BTW Lincoln did not care about slavery in the least (union congress pressed him to the issue of emancipation 2 yrs into the civil war).

Lincoln's Enacipation Procalimation - EXCLUDED (hypocrisy much?) TWO Slave Hodling state of the Union - Delaware and Maryland...................yep, that means Slaves were legal in those two union states during the entire Civil War.
What sort of confidence level do you have on your views? 20%, 50%, 75% or 90%.

I would say my confidence level on American Political History would be 5%.

I am well aware to increase one confidence level one will have to put in a lot of work to research on the historical materials.

To achieve 90% confidence level one will have to do a PhD on American Political History [no guarantee] and if autodidact will have to do similar amount or more of work by a PhD.

For example I would dare to say my confidence level on my view of Kant's Philosophy is >80% because I have put in the necessary effort.

So what is your confidence level of you views on American Political History related this issue?
75 percent IMO - as one without a degree in history - but an interest over the years.

reading and learning as a layman.

thanks for your inquary, and always welcome correction and/or more knowledge.

your inquary was a good one and i answered it honestly.

peace Sir/Madam.

gaffo
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by gaffo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:14 am

apologies for derailing the thread.

but per Succession of the States from the Union.

just per common sense, since the original 13 colonies agreed to form a union in 1776 (or there abouts), I think is proper to assume they would not "join" a union if the understanding at that time that such a union as not voluntary).

i,e, to be plain how many of the 13 would have affirmed being a member of a union if it was non-reversible? - none i suspect (lincoln's articile of confeceration bullshit aside)

there is nothing wrong with the concept of State's rights - California (and 12 other states now)claims this for legal pot, same with Death with dignaty - washington/Oregon.

fact is the southern states had the legal right to leave the Union (any state of the union still has that right IMO).

where the South failed (and the North - esp Delaware/Maryland )is on their denial of the 9th amendent which affirms natural law rights - so denies Slavery as legal) for damn near a century before the Civil War.

hypocrisy much?

- not slavery was legal DE/Maryland -----as was for a century in full violation of the intent of the 9th.

- yes secession is legal (article of confederation preamble has no legal standing) - states joined the union voluntarily and so can leave it.

gaffo
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by gaffo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:28 am

let me clarify.

I'm not a racist. i'm a universal humanist.

I value Rule of Law and oppose hypocrisy.

1. both the North and South - by ignoring the 9th amendment of our Bill of Rights - affirmed Slavery and so neither the North nor the South had any legal or moral standing to thier positions.

2. States have the legal right to leave the Union - they joined volunterily and they can leave it - there is nothing in our Constitution that forbids leaving.

3. Southern states ignored the 9th and so voided their right to leave the Union.

4. Northern States - via allowing two of thier states to ignore the 9th - lacked legal standing to demand that southern states must remain in the union.


hope i clarified things.

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-1-
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by -1- » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am

gaffo wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:29 am

Lincoln has been re-invented as a saint - "the victors get to re=write history".

Lincoln cared about ONE thing!!!!!!!!! - preserving the Union (if it meant ingoring the right of states to leave the union and use the articles of confederation to champion his cause so me it! - if it meant the contunuation of slavery - again so be it).

again, as state above in prior post - slavery was fully legal with lincoln's blessing in two Union State (hey its all good as long as they stay in the Union!).

Delaware/Maryland......

read the emacipation proclomation - refers to "States in rebellion" not the above two slave states not in rebellion!


and so plantation owners owned and beat their slaves with lincoln's affirmation for two more years AFTER said proclamation!

lincoln is overatted asshole.

give me washington/madison over that hypocrite.
Almost all heroes are overrated assholes.

Lenin, Napoleon, Stalin, Mao, Fidel, Mother Theresa, the Marquis de Sade, Hitler, Satan, all are assholes. Yet some people swear by them.

In fact, there is a huge asshole in the little assholes in all of us.

Put someone, anyone, in charge, and the longer you leave them there, the bigger assholes they become. Even if they start out ab ovo as a huge asshole already.

The only way to keep a dictator from becoming an asshole is to call him an asshole constantly and relentlessly. That happened to Prime Minister Stephen Harper in Canada. He was the best prime minister of the times, but he was so hated by the media, that he had no chance becoming worse or even level with than/as how the media portrayed him.

FlashDangerpants
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by FlashDangerpants » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:20 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:37 am
I noted Dinesh wrote a book that has evidences [his] to support his views.
I expect his views will be disputed but at least he did lay down the evidences for consideration and debate.

Death of a Nation: Plantation Politics and the Making of the Democratic Party
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Nation-Pla ... 1250163773

Note 82% of the 68 reviews are 5 stars.
I believe these are republicans.
The point is there is a voice and acceptance of his presentation thus an independent person [like me] cannot simply ignore but has to weigh the views from both sides.
Thus this discussion is relevant for this Philosophical Forum.
I note that you haven't actually cited any evidence of anything much. All you have done is tell us that some bloke called Dinesh has some theories about stuff. So which of his actual claims are you testing here?

For all this intellectual rigour you are pretending, have you done a lick of research yet? Have you looked into Truman's desegregation order and it's Dixiecrat reaction of 1948; the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (vocally opposed by Republican candidate Barry Goldwater in the presidential election); Strom Thurmonds defection from Democrat to Republican following that election; Nixon's Southern Strategy, or any other actually relevant topic? If not, perhaps you should do some of that rather than just telling us to buy substandard products from a ranting fraudster.

I could give a fuck how many glowing reviews he got on Amazon. Of course the purchasers are all republicans, specifically they are from the far right of that party. That is his entire audience and always has been. Those are the morons who would buy a book that describes a slave plantation as "a mini welfare state".

Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:51 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:20 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:37 am
I noted Dinesh wrote a book that has evidences [his] to support his views.
I expect his views will be disputed but at least he did lay down the evidences for consideration and debate.

Death of a Nation: Plantation Politics and the Making of the Democratic Party
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Nation-Pla ... 1250163773

Note 82% of the 68 reviews are 5 stars.
I believe these are republicans.
The point is there is a voice and acceptance of his presentation thus an independent person [like me] cannot simply ignore but has to weigh the views from both sides.
Thus this discussion is relevant for this Philosophical Forum.
I note that you haven't actually cited any evidence of anything much. All you have done is tell us that some bloke called Dinesh has some theories about stuff. So which of his actual claims are you testing here?

For all this intellectual rigour you are pretending, have you done a lick of research yet? Have you looked into Truman's desegregation order and it's Dixiecrat reaction of 1948; the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (vocally opposed by Republican candidate Barry Goldwater in the presidential election); Strom Thurmonds defection from Democrat to Republican following that election; Nixon's Southern Strategy, or any other actually relevant topic? If not, perhaps you should do some of that rather than just telling us to buy substandard products from a ranting fraudster.

I could give a fuck how many glowing reviews he got on Amazon. Of course the purchasers are all republicans, specifically they are from the far right of that party. That is his entire audience and always has been. Those are the morons who would buy a book that describes a slave plantation as "a mini welfare state".
The book reference from Amazon was to state that Dinesh wrote a book to present his more serious evidences besides the documentary [limited] he made.
I would like to read books and academic type critiques to his book [one side only] if any.

Note I posted above:

I asked Gaffo of his position and stated mine;
VA wrote:What sort of confidence level do you have on your views? 20%, 50%, 75% or 90%.
I am well aware to increase one confidence level one will have to put in a lot of work to research on the historical materials.

I would say my confidence level on American Political History would be 5%.
In my position on this topic I am gathering knowledge from the kindergarten level. So I am listening and reading on the views of others and both sides.

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by FlashDangerpants » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:09 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:51 am
The book reference from Amazon was to state that Dinesh wrote a book to present his more serious evidences besides the documentary [limited] he made.
I would like to read books and academic type critiques to his book [one side only] if any.
There won't be any. You will never find anyone of any worth who is going to waste their time taking seriously a book which treats slavery as a form of unemployment insurance. You might as well be challenging scientists to read all the Flat Earth web sites and argue about those. I'm not sure if you are aware, but D'Souza keeps getting into trouble for retweeting stuff his fans have written to promote this same movie you are selling. His fans have the unfortunate tendency to include hashtags such as #BurnTheJews and #BringBackSlavery. Those are the people writing the 5 star reviews you cited. This book is beneath the dignity of everyone bar a handful of oddballs and dimwits. It's up to you whether you want to be in that crowd.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:51 am
Note I posted above:

I asked Gaffo of his position and stated mine;
VA wrote:What sort of confidence level do you have on your views? 20%, 50%, 75% or 90%.
I am well aware to increase one confidence level one will have to put in a lot of work to research on the historical materials.

I would say my confidence level on American Political History would be 5%.
In my position on this topic I am gathering knowledge from the kindergarten level. So I am listening and reading on the views of others and both sides.
Find a book that isn't blatantly stupid then. You shouldn't need anyone else to write a rebuttal of D'Souza for you, you should be up to the task yourself once you have read the things I already told you about. They will be covered by any proper book on 20th Century American social and political history, along with many other things which also hold relevance.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:16 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:09 pm
In my position on this topic I am gathering knowledge from the kindergarten level. So I am listening and reading on the views of others and both sides.
Find a book that isn't blatantly stupid then. You shouldn't need anyone else to write a rebuttal of D'Souza for you, you should be up to the task yourself once you have read the things I already told you about. They will be covered by any proper book on 20th Century American social and political history, along with many other things which also hold relevance.
Unless I have achieved a Master Degree level I will have to sit on the fence on this.
But in the meantime I will continue to gather more information.
Since my curiosity is slightly stirred I would not mind reading Dinesh's Book if I can get a free copy.

I read this 1-star review [quite a long one].
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Nation-Pla ... filter-bar

By robin aistideson August 6, 2018
Format: Hardcover
D’Souza knows nothing about American history, especially the history leading up to and through the Civil War.
...
...
Someone Countered
JUDGEMENTtime 4 days ago
Nope, you are WRONG! In fact, it appears you did not even read the book!?!
Check out the very NUMEROUS footnotes to the author's claims!!!
I personally own a vast collection of early historical books & periodicals that back this book & it's claims... This book is extremely well researched and an important READ for EVERYONE interested in the welfare of this country!
AND LET ME ADD, President Trump has done MORE for this country than ANY President has in over 60 years!!! I am EXTREMELY PROUD to call Donald J. Trump, President of this great country, the U.S.A. and he is continuing to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
Meanwhile I will continue to gather views from both sides.

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by FlashDangerpants » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:21 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:16 pm
Meanwhile I will continue to gather views from both sides.
Fuck it, do what you want. If you think either of those Amazon reviews changes anything, I just don't care.

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