Death of a Nation??

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Veritas Aequitas
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Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am

Btw, I am not an American and not into politics.
So happen to have come across this.
What are your views on this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPhLXuJ90I
Not since 1860 have the Democrats so fanatically refused to accept the result of a free election. That year, their target was Lincoln. They smeared him. They went to war to defeat him. In the end, they assassinated him.

Now the target of the Democrats is President Trump and his supporters. The Left calls them racists, white supremacists and fascists. These charges are used to justify driving Trump from office and discrediting the right "by any means necessary."

But which is the party of the slave plantation? Which is the party that invented white supremacy? Which is the party that praised fascist dictators and shaped their genocidal policies and was in turn praised by them?

Moreover, which is the party of racism today? Is fascism now institutionally embodied on the right or on the left?

Through stunning historical recreations and a searching examination of fascism and white supremacy, "Death of a Nation" cuts through progressive big lies to expose hidden history and explosive truths.

Lincoln united his party and saved America from the Democrats for the first time. Can Trump—and we—come together and save America for the second time?
It is claimed the Democrats were the original KKK and slave owners.
Is this true?

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Greta
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Greta » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:17 am

Are there any members of the KKK or National Front today who would prefer the Democrats to the Republicans?

Impenitent
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Impenitent » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:17 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am
Btw, I am not an American and not into politics.
So happen to have come across this.
What are your views on this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPhLXuJ90I
Not since 1860 have the Democrats so fanatically refused to accept the result of a free election. That year, their target was Lincoln. They smeared him. They went to war to defeat him. In the end, they assassinated him.

Now the target of the Democrats is President Trump and his supporters. The Left calls them racists, white supremacists and fascists. These charges are used to justify driving Trump from office and discrediting the right "by any means necessary."

But which is the party of the slave plantation? Which is the party that invented white supremacy? Which is the party that praised fascist dictators and shaped their genocidal policies and was in turn praised by them?

Moreover, which is the party of racism today? Is fascism now institutionally embodied on the right or on the left?

Through stunning historical recreations and a searching examination of fascism and white supremacy, "Death of a Nation" cuts through progressive big lies to expose hidden history and explosive truths.

Lincoln united his party and saved America from the Democrats for the first time. Can Trump—and we—come together and save America for the second time?
It is claimed the Democrats were the original KKK and slave owners.
Is this true?
as much as the american left wishes to deny it, historically it is true

-Imp

FlashDangerpants
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:15 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am
Btw, I am not an American and not into politics.
So happen to have come across this.
What are your views on this?
And so you chose to link to an alt-right video made in praise of Trump by a confessed criminal that Trump conincidentally pardoned?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am
Not since 1860 have the Democrats so fanatically refused to accept the result of a free election. That year, their target was Lincoln. They smeared him. They went to war to defeat him. In the end, they assassinated him.

Now the target of the Democrats is President Trump and his supporters. The Left calls them racists, white supremacists and fascists. These charges are used to justify driving Trump from office and discrediting the right "by any means necessary."

But which is the party of the slave plantation? Which is the party that invented white supremacy? Which is the party that praised fascist dictators and shaped their genocidal policies and was in turn praised by them?

Moreover, which is the party of racism today? Is fascism now institutionally embodied on the right or on the left?

Through stunning historical recreations and a searching examination of fascism and white supremacy, "Death of a Nation" cuts through progressive big lies to expose hidden history and explosive truths.

Lincoln united his party and saved America from the Democrats for the first time. Can Trump—and we—come together and save America for the second time?
It is claimed the Democrats were the original KKK and slave owners.
Is this true?
All sorts of errors there. For one, John Wilkes booth was not a member of the Democrats so this "they assassinated him" thing is a poor start. And Lincoln, although opposed to slavery, was just as much a white supermacist as everyone else was in those days... here is a quote from him..
Abraham Lincoln wrote:I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
So this fairy tale retelling of history where one side is impossibly good and the other has a monopoly on evil is worthless.

It also cuts the story rather short. I mean does anyone think that after the civil war black and white Americans became equals in every detail? Of course not. Democrats enacted many Jim Crow laws (segregating stuff, dienfranchising blacks, banning intermarriage etc) in the Deep South, which I am sure is covered in detail in that documentary. But I doubt that it mentions that most states outside the Deep South also had such laws and those were passed by both parties - mostly because the voters wanted interracial marriage banned and to travel in segregated train cars all over the USA.

So given that both parties were unambiguously racist, it is worth noting that the first major act of desegregation was promulgated by a Democrat (Truman, Executive order 9981, 1948, integrating the military). This caused the racist Southern Democrats to sort of split the party. After that there was a general drift as the Dems outside the DS supported further civil rights progress, while the Dems of the DS moved towards the Republican camp and those states went from solid blue to solid red as they are today.

You have Google, so you can look up Barry Goldwater and Southern Strategy for yourself to see how the racists moved to the party that was slower to abandon overt racism.

As for whether it is decent to try and force Trump from office... he was the one who rose to political prominence by promoting the discredited notion that Obama was born in Kenya and thereby ineligible for the presidency. So what goes around comes around.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:40 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am
Btw, I am not an American and not into politics.
So happen to have come across this.
What are your views on this?
And so you chose to link to an alt-right video made in praise of Trump by a confessed criminal that Trump coincidentally pardoned?
You are too quick in jumping to highlight the person as 'confessed criminal' without bringing in the context. This is ad hominen. Rather you should debate the facts
presented and argued.
I have not made any judgment on the above at all, I am merely asking for views.

What I heard from Dinesh was [to be countered if any];
  • He confessed to contribute political donation to his long time friend, $20,000 via two other friends. I presumed the authorities would have all the evidences based on the timing of bank transactions. This is rather naive and stupid of him in contrast to the schemes that others did in contributing hundreds of thousand and million to political parties. Thus he would have no choice but to plea guilty.

    In addition he was threatened with other accusations with heavier penalties so he chose the shorter 8 months.

    Dinesh claimed it was not corruption [no quid pro quo] given the amount involved but he was doing his friend a favor.

    Dinesh confessed but he claimed it was heavily politically motivated because he had critiqued Obama strongly in a movie and there were evidence of political elements mentioned in the FBI presentation to the judge.

    Another critical point Dinesh claimed is no one has been imprisoned [confinement] for 8 months for exceeding political donation of $20,000.

    In addition the judge even recommended him for psychiatric evaluation and the FBI allocated $100,000 specifically to ensure he is to be caught.
    The above if true is really a overkill due to political retribution.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:38 am
Not since 1860 have the Democrats so fanatically refused to accept the result of a free election. That year, their target was Lincoln. They smeared him. They went to war to defeat him. In the end, they assassinated him.

Now the target of the Democrats is President Trump and his supporters. The Left calls them racists, white supremacists and fascists. These charges are used to justify driving Trump from office and discrediting the right "by any means necessary."

But which is the party of the slave plantation? Which is the party that invented white supremacy? Which is the party that praised fascist dictators and shaped their genocidal policies and was in turn praised by them?

Moreover, which is the party of racism today? Is fascism now institutionally embodied on the right or on the left?

Through stunning historical recreations and a searching examination of fascism and white supremacy, "Death of a Nation" cuts through progressive big lies to expose hidden history and explosive truths.

Lincoln united his party and saved America from the Democrats for the first time. Can Trump—and we—come together and save America for the second time?
It is claimed the Democrats were the original KKK and slave owners.
Is this true?
All sorts of errors there. For one, John Wilkes booth was not a member of the Democrats so this "they assassinated him" thing is a poor start. And Lincoln, although opposed to slavery, was just as much a white supermacist as everyone else was in those days... here is a quote from him..
Abraham Lincoln wrote:I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
So this fairy tale retelling of history where one side is impossibly good and the other has a monopoly on evil is worthless.

It also cuts the story rather short. I mean does anyone think that after the civil war black and white Americans became equals in every detail? Of course not. Democrats enacted many Jim Crow laws (segregating stuff, dienfranchising blacks, banning intermarriage etc) in the Deep South, which I am sure is covered in detail in that documentary. But I doubt that it mentions that most states outside the Deep South also had such laws and those were passed by both parties - mostly because the voters wanted interracial marriage banned and to travel in segregated train cars all over the USA.

So given that both parties were unambiguously racist, it is worth noting that the first major act of desegregation was promulgated by a Democrat (Truman, Executive order 9981, 1948, integrating the military). This caused the racist Southern Democrats to sort of split the party. After that there was a general drift as the Dems outside the DS supported further civil rights progress, while the Dems of the DS moved towards the Republican camp and those states went from solid blue to solid red as they are today.

You have Google, so you can look up Barry Goldwater and Southern Strategy for yourself to see how the racists moved to the party that was slower to abandon overt racism.

As for whether it is decent to try and force Trump from office... he was the one who rose to political prominence by promoting the discredited notion that Obama was born in Kenya and thereby ineligible for the presidency. So what goes around comes around.
Do you have the link and the context for what Lincoln wrote above.

As for the other points I note your points subject to counters by others.
However if you are to be serious with your critique of the documentary you will have to see the whole show [or read the book] and note the evidences provided therein.

FlashDangerpants
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:00 am

No genuine Lincoln quote is hard to find references for

The stuff Dinesh admitted there is the usual set of excuses for most criminals - I took a plea beause they were mean and said they would prosecute me for something worse - boo fucking hoo. Other people do worse things without breaking the law - boo hoo. They made me stay at home for 8 months and that's sort of worse than real prison if you think about it - *sniffle*. He made campaign contributions using conspirators route the cash for him in order to circumvent relevant legislation of which he was well aware. It doesn't matter what party you are supporting, you can't do that.

I can't be bothered having an argument about whether that simple fact is an ad hominem, I have long since had enough of people who don't know what ad hominem means.

My points are indeed subject to valid counters. But I am clearly massively better informed than you, so good luck with that.

I am not going to pay to watch a documentary that is advertised with false claims. You raised points of claimed fact and asked if they were true, I gave you an answer. Don't be a wanker about it.

If this thread is only to be joined by people who are willing to watch that documentary in order to discuss its broad and unspupportable claims, please contact a mod to discuss getting it locked or deleted.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:24 am

D'Souza is a scoundrel, not terrible bright, and not worth bothering with.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:09 am

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:00 am
No genuine Lincoln quote is hard to find references for

The stuff Dinesh admitted there is the usual set of excuses for most criminals - I took a plea beause they were mean and said they would prosecute me for something worse - boo fucking hoo. Other people do worse things without breaking the law - boo hoo. They made me stay at home for 8 months and that's sort of worse than real prison if you think about it - *sniffle*. He made campaign contributions using conspirators route the cash for him in order to circumvent relevant legislation of which he was well aware. It doesn't matter what party you are supporting, you can't do that.

I can't be bothered having an argument about whether that simple fact is an ad hominem, I have long since had enough of people who don't know what ad hominem means.

My points are indeed subject to valid counters. But I am clearly massively better informed than you, so good luck with that.

I am not going to pay to watch a documentary that is advertised with false claims. You raised points of claimed fact and asked if they were true, I gave you an answer. Don't be a wanker about it.

If this thread is only to be joined by people who are willing to watch that documentary in order to discuss its broad and unspupportable claims, please contact a mod to discuss getting it locked or deleted.
I admit I am not well informed of the above issues and can only read views from both camps which should be based on evidence and not personal subjective views.

The points I paraphrased re Dinesh's view are from Youtube. I can't find any one countering and challenging his points to get a balanced view.

But to propose that the thread to be locked or deleted is too much.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:14 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:24 am
D'Souza is a scoundrel, not terrible bright, and not worth bothering with.
Any supporting evidences to the above.

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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by -1- » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:33 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:15 pm
Abraham Lincoln wrote:I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; I am not, nor ever have been, a member of the Communist Party of America; I am not, nor ever have been, a card-carrying member of the American Bolshevik Marxist-Leninist party; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. In short: Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come n join the Nazi party.
I like this quote.

Not for its racism, but for uncovering hard-hitting historical facts.

Down with racism, sexism (except for sex, of course, sloppy, wet kisses, holding hands, watching the full moon while cuddling in a field of heathers, feeling her up, bjs, anal penetration and forced enemas), specisism, vitalism, materialism (opposed to supernaturalism)!

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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by -1- » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:43 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:14 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:24 am
D'Souza is a scoundrel, not terrible bright, and not worth bothering with.
Any supporting evidences to the above.
Veg is a supporting evidence in, by, for, and through her own self.

FlashDangerpants
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:59 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:09 am
I admit I am not well informed of the above issues and can only read views from both camps which should be based on evidence and not personal subjective views.

The points I paraphrased re Dinesh's view are from Youtube. I can't find any one countering and challenging his points to get a balanced view.

But to propose that the thread to be locked or deleted is too much.
I have absolutely no intention of spending either time or money on D'Souza's products. That is not negotiable. If your position is that only people who are willing to waste time and money on him should participate, you need to lock/delete this thread and take your discussion to wherever his fanboys congregate.

You didn't 'paraphrase' him, you just copy-pasted a block of text from his youtube promo. Put more work in. If there's something specific you want a counter-opinion on, be specific. Don't make me watch a piece of alt-right propaganda just so I can work out what it is that you are too fat and lazy to actually paraphrase.

I am happy to provide some evidence for what I claim when I think it is required. I will not write a 30 tome illustrated history of the USA for you though.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:48 am

Here is one strong negative critique of the "Death of a Nation"
https://variety.com/2018/film/reviews/d ... 202890451/
In “Death of a Nation,” the latest smirky documentary screed from the fake-historical-news factory of Dinesh D’Souza, there’s an astonishing section in which the filmmaker displays the legal statutes of Nazi Germany, all to demonstrate his thesis: that American liberalism was, and is, the Third Reich’s ideological sibling. (Yes, he’s really saying that. And no, you can’t make this s—t up.)

“Check out the official Nazi platform!” says D’Souza, whose recitation of the official Nazi platform is just about the only set of facts “Death of a Nation” gets right. Here are a few of the regulations he quotes: “Money lenders and profiteers punished by death…State control of media and the press…Seizure of land without compensation…State control of religious expression.” Then D’Souza, in his sing-song hey kids, let me tell you a story about history! way, makes the following statement: “This reads like something jointly written by Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders!” And all you can think is: It does?

In “Death of a Nation,” Dinesh D’Souza is no longer preaching to the choir; he’s preaching to the mentally unsound. That’s how detached from reality his “philosophy,” his armchair rage, and his passionate and consuming desire to be a radical-right shill have become.

It’s tempting to call “Death of a Nation” an outrage, but, of course, that’s just what D’Souza wants. Scandalous untruth isn’t simply his métier — it’s his PR machine. The more that mainstream journalists go into high dudgeon over his lies and his mud-slinging, the more that he can feed the bonfire of the culture war. It’s the formula that was put in place 30 years ago by right-wing talk radio, and that Fox News honed to a crude edge of firebrand theatrics: If your agenda is to stoke resentment and create cartoon enemies, then you don’t need to be accurate. Just reduce every conflict to the status of a mythological action movie (Freedom fighters vs. socialists! Kick-ass leaders vs. wimp diplomats! “Real” Americans vs. immigrants!), and you’ve turned politics into a perpetual celebrity death match. The facts don’t matter; only the showbiz addiction of the fight matters. That and the chance to let viewers get their rage-fueled rocks off.
It is only fair I get a balanced view.
Reading the comments from both sides below the article is also interesting.

At the least 'Death of A Nation' [right or wrong] has something positive to another person, it make me [being non-American] curious and want to learn more about American History.
I will keep in view to get to the true historical facts if such ever exist.

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Kayla
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by Kayla » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:08 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:17 am
as much as the american left wishes to deny it, historically it is true
never met anyone who denies this

FlashDangerpants
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Re: Death of a Nation??

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:05 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:48 am
Here is one strong negative critique of the "Death of a Nation"
https://variety.com/2018/film/reviews/d ... 202890451/
The guy writing that review would appear to have taken the attitude I would have had I submitted to your demands that I watch it, it's argued from a ridiculous position which can only bring forth partisan nonsense and utter bullshit.

The review does mention the Southern strategy and the Southern Democrats though, just like I did. So now you know a couple of topics you can research to start looking for answers to this absurd farce.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:48 am
Reading the comments from both sides below the article is also interesting.
Ok. I just scanned them and am less impressed, but whatever.
I would suggest finding much better material to work with before trying to get taken seriously.

I'm not impressed by the implicit suggestion that all points of view are equally valid, when some of those views are idiot conspiracy theories constructed out of cherry picked data.

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