The Impending Collapse Of America

[Enigma3]

At over 20 trillion dollars the United States has, as of now, accumulated more debt than any other country in the history of the world.

The borrowing and spending of money by the American people has replaced the practices of saving money and production of tangible goods. The creation of debt in America is treated as if it were an actual manufactured good. It is as if some theoretical 'cyber-dream economics' together with the mere printing of paper money is good enough.

The truth is that the center of the vital high tech manufacturing has moved to Asia and would be very difficult to gain back. The American people are heading blindly down an unsustainable road; but the catastrophe is clear on the short-term horizon for those who bother to look.

Furthermore, the people have lost their former dignity as well as any overarching metaphysical or religious purpose in the world. Americans have gradually become an inferior type of people. The real truth is that this is not an economic crisis, but a moral and civilizational problem.

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[Science Fan]

Actually, the amount of manufactured out put has largely remained the same, but, due to greater efficiency, fewer workers are needed to produce the same output. This has also happened in agriculture, but no one would claim the US economy was in jeopardy because so few people are employed in agriculture. The US economy is right now in fairly decent shape. Much better than Australia's and most of Europe, as well as Canada.

Manufacturing is rather dated and is part of the older economy. The US has moved more into the modern economy and information output.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Don't get our hopes up.

[Clinias]

Our debt is at 21 Trillion.

America has already collapsed. We are in a cultural civil war that may turn hot anytime the economy takes a dump. America is very pollarized and our legislative bodies at the national level are gridlocked.

Second, Treason is rampant throughout all levels of American society. There is no loyalty to the foundation of America and so it is falling apart. The schools are teaching Marxism, not the classical liberalism of the FFofA.

America is basically Nihilistic throughout and once nihilism becomes fullfledged it seeks destruction. It commits suicide. The debt is a sign of that. We are being destroyed from within. I can not believe that the supposed "republican leadership" passed that Omnibus bill. Unbelievable. No sense in reigning in spending. The hate of the Republican leadership of President Trump is just amazing to behold.

The culture is already gone, and when the culture is gone, the country collapses.

[Enigma3]

Actually, the amount of manufactured out put has largely remained the same, but, due to greater efficiency, fewer workers are needed to produce the same output. This has also happened in agriculture, but no one would claim the US economy was in jeopardy because so few people are employed in agriculture. The US economy is right now in fairly decent shape. Much better than Australia's and most of Europe, as well as Canada.

Manufacturing is rather dated and is part of the older economy. The US has moved more into the modern economy and information output.

If manufacturing is dated then why is the Chinese economy moved into such a high position: it is now number two in the entire earth!

China's economy is not based on information output.


Also, the agricultural economy was in fact successfully replaced by the manufacturing economy, there is no such widespread success with the information economy. If information output were more than just a dream why are we so deep in debt and China not in debt. Why do we have to print so much money?

Information output is, as I said, part of the 'Cyber-dream' economy and is based upon the printing of money and it is unsustainable.

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[Science Fan]

The Chinese economy is not in a high position. The Chinese are still communist and have questionable accounting records. They are also facing problems with bubbles in areas such as real estate, as well as an enormous amount of mal-investment. Also, keep in mind, China is now losing jobs to countries like Cambodia. It's a cycle. It makes no more economic sense to return to manufacturing than it would to bitch about so few people working in agriculture. The more productive a country becomes in an area, the fewer people employed in that area. There are some exceptions when markets are not saturated, but, otherwise, that's the natural outcome of increasing productivity --- it takes fewer people to do the same job.

The debt levels are not indicative of a crash or a coming falling of the USA. Check out your history. When England was a weak country, it accumulated an enormous debt, and what happened? It turned into the world's first super-power. Alternatively, Spain, a major power, accumulated debt and sunk into oblivion. It's not the amount of debt that is the controlling factor, but rather, how it is financed, and what it is used for. And the OP completely ignored those aspects of debt.

[Skip]

At over 20 trillion dollars the United States has, as of now, accumulated more debt than any other country in the history of the world.

So what? Every blockbuster movie grosses more, and costs more, than any previous movie. It means nothing: money is an abstract notion; its value is arbitrary; interest and its compounding is just a tally of unhatched chickens.
What happens if a person defaults on their debts? They lose their assets and declare bankruptcy and stop paying interest. Worst case, if they default on payments owed to the government, they go to prison, which costs the taxpaying public ten times as much as they owed.
What happens when a currency collapses? People switch to barter for the exchange of goods and services.

The creation of debt in America is treated as if it were an actual manufactured good.

That's what capitalism is. Capital is for lending at a profit. In order for a business to get started and hire people to produce something, it first has to raise the capital: borrow money from investors, who lend it in the expectation of getting more money back. In order to make a profit, so that it can give dividends to its investors, the industry has to sell a maximum amount of its product at the highest possible price. In order to buy all those products, consumers have to be convinced that borrowing and spending is better than saving. Many of the businesses are providing a service, such as insurance or financial advice, rather than a material product, so there will be no visible result of any of its transactions - even though it has investors and makes a profit. In order to pay the ginormous profits of all the contractors that supply its administrative and military needs, both in material and services, manufactured products and research, fuel, computing and recruiting, the government either has to collect sufficient tax, which is very unpopular with the financiers of election campaigns, or borrow money from private capital, at compound interest - and then collect enough tax from the general public to "service" the debt - that is, keep up interest payments without defraying the original loan. Even without borrowing any more, the debt would keep inflating. Money-lenders have no motivation to change this situation.

The truth is that the center of the vital high tech manufacturing has moved to Asia and would be very difficult to gain back.

Especially since they were moved there by the American owners, in order to maximize their profit. They won't readily agree to take a loss by hiring workers at the American living standard, nor by selling to the Asian consumer at the price their Asian workers can afford.
Since there are already far too many manufactured products, consumers have to be advertised into buying more and unnecessary crap, to fill up more and more garbage dumps, and throw more and more pollutants into the ocean and landfills, and require more and more power to run their unnecessary electrical gizmos and internal combustion transport for their unnecessary crap to arrive at the retail outlets, then move on to the recycle or dump site, and to get to their jobs to pay the interest on all the borrowed money to replace all the unnecessary crap ever more frequently ...

The American people are heading blindly down an unsustainable road;

And have never been on any other. As long as there was a frontier to expand into - land and resources they could take away from other people - this inflationary situation could be maintained, even accelerated.
Expanding to the moon or Mars is problematic - but that doesn't stop investors

Furthermore, the people have lost their former dignity as well as any overarching metaphysical or religious purpose in the world.

But at least they still have their illusions.

[Walker]

Our debt is at 21 Trillion.

America has already collapsed. We are in a cultural civil war that may turn hot anytime the economy takes a dump. America is very pollarized and our legislative bodies at the national level are gridlocked.

Second, Treason is rampant throughout all levels of American society. There is no loyalty to the foundation of America and so it is falling apart. The schools are teaching Marxism, not the classical liberalism of the FFofA.

America is basically Nihilistic throughout and once nihilism becomes fullfledged it seeks destruction. It commits suicide. The debt is a sign of that. We are being destroyed from within. I can not believe that the supposed "republican leadership" passed that Omnibus bill. Unbelievable. No sense in reigning in spending. The hate of the Republican leadership of President Trump is just amazing to behold.

The culture is already gone, and when the culture is gone, the country collapses.

I looked out the door.

The country is still there.

The problem is government corruption, plain and simple.
The cause can be tracked.

President Trump was elected to clear the swamp.

The swamp is a metaphor for government corruption.


Here is but one example of self-serving corruption, hiding behind the label of public service.

How Comey Lied About Spying on Trump Tower
https://spectator.org/how-comey-lied-ab ... ump-tower/

“J im Comey deserves a special place in the annals of sanctimonious frauds in Washington, D.C. He leaked, lied, bent rules, treated FBI material as his own personal property, violated confidential conversations, and generally acted like a government unto himself. But now he has the gall to write it all up in the sonorous nonsense language of “constitutional crisis.” His forthcoming memoir amounts to nothing more than the sour grapes of a self-serving operator over a wholly justified sacking.i]