The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by Greta » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:27 am

Walker wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:06 am
His sincerity doesn't confer understanding or authority on a social issue.
When I was young, going around in circles was fun. Not so much now ... from a few posts ago:
How many complaints about qualifications of people do you hear when they lobby to raise awareness of diseases and or policy failures after the trauma of losing loved ones? Numerous people respond to personal tragedy with awareness raising efforts.

uwot
Posts: 4373
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by uwot » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:33 am

Science Fan wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:55 pm
I think one thing philosophy can accomplish today is in convincing people of the following: 1. One should defer to expert opinions...
Tricky. Yes we have to accept that some people are waaaaay better informed on some subjects than others and we really should go to the experts first. On the other hand, philosophy has always been about challenging people who claim to be experts.
Science Fan wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:55 pm
...2. There are rational ways to figure out which expert opinions should carry the greater weight.
There are also empirical ways. Science as it is now practised really took hold with the foundation of the Royal Society, the motto of which is Nullius in verba-take no ones word for it. That was a reaction to the authority of Plato, Aristotle and particularly the Pope. In 1687 they published Newton's Principia, the General Scholium in the second edition of which threw out any reliance on opinion. https://isaac-newton.org/general-scholium/ Expert opinion has no influence on what the world does; the best expert is the one whose work most accurately describes what actually happens.
Science Fan wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Yet, how many people even think about deferring to experts and figuring out how to sort through various expert opinions?
As Bertrand Russell said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
Science Fan wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Hardly anyone, it seems, people are too quick to think that any one's opinion is of equal merit to anyone else's and this is simply not true.
Well, from outside the USA, it doesn't look like expert opinion is going to make much difference to what appears to be an entirely emotive issue. The rest of the world looks on as 10 to 15 thousand Americans are killed by guns every year and are astonished that there are people who think that is a price worth paying. Some people like guns, we get that, so let them have their toys, just don't sell them any f@£king bullets.

Walker
Posts: 6843
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by Walker » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:37 am

Greta wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:27 am
Walker wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:06 am
His sincerity doesn't confer understanding or authority on a social issue.
When I was young, going around in circles was fun. Not so much now ... from a few posts ago:
How many complaints about qualifications of people do you hear when they lobby to raise awareness of diseases and or policy failures after the trauma of losing loved ones? Numerous people respond to personal tragedy with awareness raising efforts.
Well, it’s true.

The kid is sincere, traumatized, confused, he has a bullying attitude, a filthy mouth, and he’s disrespectful.

Why should he have the say of the way of things?

As another Parkland kid points out, but not with the same media spotlight, the cause of the shooting was an inept sheriff’s department.

See something say something didn’t work.
Plenty of folks saw a disturbed kid and said something.

Officially dealing with prior problems caused by the mentally disturbed and bullied shooter would have had the effect of generating crime statistics that tarnish the ruling party’s expectations.

So … no police charges, no statistics, no crime, ethnic quotas met, school funding flows. 1984.
The shooter ends up with no police record, he's legal to buy.

Thanks again to the Progs.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8168
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:15 am

More evidence of how normal Americans are.

uwot
Posts: 4373
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by uwot » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:06 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:15 am
More evidence of how normal Americans are.
I dunno. Any country that can give us Bugs Bunny can't be all bad.

Walker
Posts: 6843
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by Walker » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:11 am

Missing the principle for the particular.

1984, not American, same principle.

It’s the way of the world.
All politics are local.

Y’all should get out more.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8168
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:59 am

uwot wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:33 am
The rest of the world looks on as 10 to 15 thousand Americans are killed by guns every year and are astonished that there are people who think that is a price worth paying.
Really? I think it's a bargain.

uwot
Posts: 4373
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by uwot » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:13 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:59 am
uwot wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:33 am
The rest of the world looks on as 10 to 15 thousand Americans are killed by guns every year and are astonished that there are people who think that is a price worth paying.
Really? I think it's a bargain.
Point taken.
Most of the rest of the world looks on as 10 to 15 thousand Americans are killed by guns every year and are astonished that there are people who think that is a price worth paying.

uwot
Posts: 4373
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by uwot » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:20 am

Walker wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:11 am
Missing the principle for the particular.

1984, not American, same principle.

It’s the way of the world.
All politics are local.

Y’all should get out more.
Still trudging across the tundra, Walker?

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8168
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:27 am

uwot wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:13 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:59 am
uwot wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:33 am
The rest of the world looks on as 10 to 15 thousand Americans are killed by guns every year and are astonished that there are people who think that is a price worth paying.
Really? I think it's a bargain.
Point taken.
''Most of the rest of the world looks on as 10 to 15 thousand Americans are killed by guns every year and are astonished that there are people who think that is too expensive.''

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8168
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:19 pm

Does anyone really give a flying fuck about America's 'gun problem'? So they like shooting each other? Who can blame them?

Atla
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: The Irrationalism of David Hogg Media Sensation

Post by Atla » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:41 pm

Americans don't seem to be running their own country, they don't seem to be the ones in control, but aside from that they are generally OK people and not dumber than the rest of the planet. But still, hating on them / envying them is always fun.

I wonder though, if someone plays this game for too long, does something click in her head eventually, and does she turn into a genuine hater one day? :)

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

"10 to 15 thousand Americans are killed by guns every year"

Post by henry quirk » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:19 pm

Most of those are suicides.

'What's your point, Henry?'

My point: the gun was the tool these folks used to off themselves, not the cause of their distress or dis-ease.

Take away or restrict guns and they woulda used razor blades, rope, Drano, bridges, roof tops, pills, cars, etc.

As I say in another thread: go on, restrict the hell out of guns (or ammo)...hell, (try to) take guns away...you'll only take away tools and won't put a dent in the crazy.

uwot
Posts: 4373
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: "10 to 15 thousand Americans are MURDERED by guns every year"

Post by uwot » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:08 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:19 pm
Most of those are suicides.
No they're not:
Gun violence in the United States results in tens of thousands of deaths and injuries annually. In 2013, there were 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries (23.2 injuries per 100,000 U.S. citizens), and 33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms" (10.6 deaths per 100,000 U.S. citizens). These deaths consisted of 11,208 homicides, 21,175 suicides, 505 deaths due to accidental or negligent discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms use with "undetermined intent"...Firearms were used to kill 13,286 people in the U.S. in 2015, excluding suicide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_viole ... ted_States
henry quirk wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:19 pm
As I say in another thread: go on, restrict the hell out of guns (or ammo)...hell, (try to) take guns away...you'll only take away tools and won't put a dent in the crazy.
Well yeah, but in the 2014 Kunming attack for example, it took 8 people with knives to kill 34 people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
Stephen Paddock managed 58 all by himself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:20 pm

"No they're not:"

Yeah, you're right, my bad.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest