Roy Moore

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Walker
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Roy Moore

Post by Walker » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:38 pm

There is an election today in the USofA.

It's important because it impacts the count of senators in Congress, by party.

Roy Moore is up for election, for the Senate.
He has been accused of immorality.
Based on the video, what do you think?

Why These Alabama Voters Are Sticking By Roy Moore (HBO)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjLMAoejW-A

mickthinks
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by mickthinks » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:16 pm

You don't need me to tell you that there is no evidence of Roy Moore's guilt or innocence presented in that video. I don't understand why you ask us to watch it and then give our opinion on the issue. Did I misunderstand your question?

bobevenson
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by bobevenson » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:57 pm

Please, all of these people accused of doing things 30 years ago. What kind of national hysteria is this? It borders on the psychotic.

Walker
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by Walker » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:23 pm

bobevenson wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:57 pm
Please, all of these people accused of doing things 30 years ago. What kind of national hysteria is this? It borders on the psychotic.
Good question.

Impenitent
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by Impenitent » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:07 am

so many years ago... this isn't moore's first election...

never mentioned before...

why now with the accusations?

-Imp

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:04 am

Moore' allegations were not believable, and largely discredited. But a lot of people vote by political party, and the republic party, like the democrats, as split into two.... but the Democrats were all in for their candidate, and they manipulated the media enough to push away many suburban republicans from voting.

This ironically doesn't change much, because both Moore and Jones, either way, would of had to face a recall vote in a few months. The Anti-Trump Republicans openly talked about launching a Ethics investigation (would of floundered, given the only evidence is admitted to be forged) or having Moore's seat taken away from him as soon as he got in, expelling him. The Senate can do this for almost any reason expect a handful.... and the most important exception is they can't refuse to seat someone merely for winning a election. That was written into the constitution after the Civil War. Had the Anti-Trump Republicans and the Democrats rushed to expel Moore, he could of appealed directly to the Supreme Court, and every state that had a representative in the senate would of lost ALL of it's voting seats in the House & Senate. Obviously the House and Senate would call that bluff, but the courts wouldn't recognize any laws passed by congress from that point on. That's how our system of checks and balances would of worked, you would be left with effectively only Pro-Trump senators and representatives. It isn't the individual senator or representative who denies seating a elected official from office, but ALL the state's reps. Just how it is written.

So now the opposite is going to happen. If Jones goes in too liberal, he will get a recall vote, and get dragged out of office. But they can't do it first thing, from the Senate. Only safe recourse is the state doing the recall. Both Jones and Moore faced this, hence why I wasn't to thrilled with talking about either outside the sexual allegations fraud. Neither had been destined to last. Jones might get lucky and keep his head down and not do anything to piss anyone off, but when the majority of the state hates you, and you only got elected because they were shamed into staying home for the other, the long term prospects of holding the seat isn't very sound. Jones' position is about as precarious as May's position over Parliament in the U.K., she does the wrong thing, she is gone, fast. Jones likewise is gone. Many are thinking he knows he can't ever get reelected, so will go super democrat, but that is likely exactly what will trigger a recall. Alabama has a absurd constitution, longest in the world.... they don't differentiate between law and constitution, every little law past is part of the constitution. If they find some constitutional block, they will quickly pass a law allowing for the recall.

That's the biggest long term headache, it will be Governor Walker all over again soon. Neither side is stupid enough (at least I hope not) to block Jones from taking office, and same for Moore. Plan by default would of been a recall. Still holds, which means 2018 people will still be talking about fucking Alabama. I don't like it. Hope Jones just lays low, and enjoys the perks of office as a lame duck, so we don't have that again. Big headache every time.

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Lacewing
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by Lacewing » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:43 am

Re: why now with the accusations?

Broadly speaking, maybe because it's time now? Maybe the wave has swelled big enough due to a combination of factors converging? A tipping point? Thirty or forty years is just the blink of an eye in the larger shifts of mankind.

The magnitude and speed of the society-wide unfolding is surprising... I would have never guessed I'd get to see such a thing in my life... but I'm glad for it. The old masks seem to be coming off... being ripped off actually. Finally, truth! Finally some fairness! I've had to keep secrets for my whole life too... to avoid family embarrassment... so I understand. Many women have been conditioned to bear horrors so that other people (and the women themselves) can be spared bigger nightmares. When men consider this a weakness, they are failing to recognize the compassionate depth and strength of women. I think most women probably bear more pain (on multiple levels) than most men ever do (or even can). And yet men are defined as having more "strength". There are all kinds of short-sighted and archaic definitions like this that it would be best for us to evolve beyond.

For me, Moore is unbelievable and without credibility simply because of his rabid and hateful nature. Anyone of honor and truth (and balance) would surely not say the things he does. He's too extreme... and that's always suspicious to me. Extremes are used to draw attention away from the opposites and to obscure truth. There's no other reasonable purpose for it. It is deceitful.

mickthinks
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by mickthinks » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 am

I think imp's question is an important one and deserves a more detailed response than you've given it there, lacewing.

The first point to note is that, given that accusations can be falsified in order to poison opinion and influence voting *, the delay in bringing these serious charges forward is suspicious. Might they have been fabricated recently, rather than being kept secret for so long?

Such suspicions require more than "because it's time now" (to which the response might well be "yes, now does seem to be politically convenient!") and "Moores' politics are too extreme" (to which the response might be "for his political opponents, of course, but that doesn't explain the decades long silence or justify the stealing of an election, if that is what it is").


* Here's what appears to be a crude example of fabricated accusations in order to discredit a politician—Chuck Schumer Calls Police Over Forged Sexual Harassment Document

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 am

The only thing I want to know is why fatty asked those septic fossils if Roy Moore is a good kkkristian. Well, he's very good at being a kkkristian. That goes without saying doesn't it?

mickthinks
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by mickthinks » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:34 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 am

... fatty ...
You're a fool, vt.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:49 am

mickthinks wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:34 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 am

... fatty ...
You're a fool, vt.
Coming from you that means a lot MT. Really.

''Luntz also served as Newt Gingrich's pollster in the mid-1990s for the Contract with America. During that time, he helped Gingrich produce a GOPAC memo that encouraged Republicans to "speak like Newt" by describing Democrats and Democratic policies using words such as "corrupt," "devour," "greed," "hypocrisy," "liberal," "sick," and "traitors." ''
Although Luntz later tried to distance himself from the Bush administration policy, it was his idea that administration communications reframe "global warming" as "climate change" since "climate change" was thought to sound less severe.Luntz has since said that he is not responsible for what the Bush administration did after that time.''
Shame on me ten-fold for mocking such a worthy human being.

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Lacewing
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by Lacewing » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:44 pm

mickthinks wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 am
I think imp's question is an important one and deserves a more detailed response than you've given it there, lacewing.
Great... do that... I don't think you need to detract from what I said.
mickthinks wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 am
The first point to note is that, given that accusations can be falsified in order to poison opinion and influence voting *, the delay in bringing these serious charges forward is suspicious. Might they have been fabricated recently, rather than being kept secret for so long?
Sure... some could have been. I'm guessing there's some truth, however, considering that there are apparently other people in his town who have spoken about knowing of his history. Of course there will probably be some women who use this moment of cultural shifting to launch unfounded attacks to get back at someone... just like women who falsely cry rape. At the same time, there are going to be a lot of TRUTHS being spoken and it seems unlikely that multiple women will falsely jump on the same targets along with other people backing up their stories.
mickthinks wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 am
Such suspicions require more than "because it's time now" (to which the response might well be "yes, now does seem to be politically convenient!") and "Moores' politics are too extreme" (to which the response might be "for his political opponents, of course, but that doesn't explain the decades long silence or justify the stealing of an election, if that is what it is").
So you're suggesting there are better points by dismissing mine? 8) How predictable.

I'm considering the truth of multiple angles. Why don't you? Don't you suppose that's more realistic?

Walker
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by Walker » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:17 pm

Moore rode a horse to cast his vote in the election. Bit of an eccentric.

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Lacewing
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by Lacewing » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:27 pm

Roy Moore has previously said that if it was God’s will, he would win.

Now that he didn’t win, he refuses to concede and he says that “the heart and soul of our country is at stake. Abortion, sodomy, and materialism have taken the place of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. What kind of ego perceives one's own involvement as crucially paramount for the hand of God? Or does he just want others to regard him that way?

Is it NOT the will of God when Roy Moore loses... or is it that:

1) Roy Moore doesn’t truly represent God
2) God does not exist or govern anywhere but in the minds/thoughts of those who believe in him
3) God is punishing Roy Moore
4) God is protecting the rest of us from Roy Moore
5) Evil is more powerful than God’s will

Whatever the case, it appears that Roy Moore’s God actually follows Roy Moore’s WILL, doesn’t it?

Walker
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Re: Roy Moore

Post by Walker » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:27 pm
Roy Moore has previously said that if it was God’s will, he would win.

Now that he didn’t win, he refuses to concede and he says that “the heart and soul of our country is at stake. Abortion, sodomy, and materialism have taken the place of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. What kind of ego perceives one's own involvement as crucially paramount for the hand of God? Or does he just want others to regard him that way?

Is it NOT the will of God when Roy Moore loses... or is it that:

1) Roy Moore doesn’t truly represent God
2) God does not exist or govern anywhere but in the minds/thoughts of those who believe in him
3) God is punishing Roy Moore
4) God is protecting the rest of us from Roy Moore
5) Evil is more powerful than God’s will

Whatever the case, it appears that Roy Moore’s God actually follows Roy Moore’s WILL, doesn’t it?
1: You believe it wasn't God's will.
2: You believe in God, as defined by Roy.
3: You believe in God.
4: You believe it was God's will.

Your observations all hinge on God.

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