A New Constitution

How should society be organised, if at all?

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TimTimothy
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A New Constitution

Post by TimTimothy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:43 pm

Let's boil the entirety of the Constitution down to a single word:

Consent

bobevenson
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by bobevenson » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:56 pm

Whatever the hell that means.

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TimTimothy
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by TimTimothy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:01 pm

That's a bold statement. ;-)

bobevenson
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by bobevenson » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:10 pm

And directly to the point!

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TimTimothy
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by TimTimothy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:15 pm

I'll expand:

In governance, there's a difference between Law and Rule. Laws are foundational, rules are the method of implementation of the Law.

The more I've thought about the U.S. Constitution, the more it seems a ham-fisted attempt to simply define consent. In the spirit of the 9th Amendment, which fundamentally expands our Rights way beyond the bill of rights, simplifying the concept would clarify rather than confuse. There were those among the founding fathers who thought enumerating a sub set of Rights would diminish rather than strengthen the concept.

Law: Consent:

Needed rules:
1. What is consent?
2. Who can/can't give consent?
3. How to ensure consent?

It seems an elegant form of Constitutional Law, to me.

bobevenson
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by bobevenson » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm

I don't know what Constitutional Law means since governmental laws must pass muster under the Constitution. Let me ask you, if you were able to amend the U.S. Constitution, what would you do?

Impenitent
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by Impenitent » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm

consent?

the armed populace gives consent...

the body politic takes freedom from those who consent

-Imp

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TimTimothy
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by TimTimothy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:25 pm

bobevenson wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm
I don't know what Constitutional Law means since governmental laws must pass muster under the Constitution. Let me ask you, if you were able to amend the U.S. Constitution, what would you do?
I'd replace the Constitution with a single word: Consent.

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TimTimothy
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by TimTimothy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:27 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm
consent?

the armed populace gives consent...

the body politic takes freedom from those who consent

-Imp
I disagree. Freedom isn't the absence of law or rule. Absence of law/rule simply creates a vacuum that power will fill. Unless you think that power is the only thing that deserves freedom, then law and governance is required to maintain freedom more widely than the alternative.

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TimTimothy
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by TimTimothy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:52 pm

...and if you believe power is all that deserves freedom, then there's no need for a constitution, a government, or law/rule of any kind.

bobevenson
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by bobevenson » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:12 am

TimTimothy wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:25 pm
bobevenson wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm
I don't know what Constitutional Law means since governmental laws must pass muster under the Constitution. Let me ask you, if you were able to amend the U.S. Constitution, what would you do?
I'd replace the Constitution with a single word: Consent.
I guess the government couldn't arrest anybody for anything since they didn't consent, huh?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:16 am

.




Recognize, define & commit to supporting civil rights of citizens while defining limits & purpose of government within a society.




.

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TimTimothy
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by TimTimothy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:28 am

bobevenson wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:12 am
TimTimothy wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:25 pm
bobevenson wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm
I don't know what Constitutional Law means since governmental laws must pass muster under the Constitution. Let me ask you, if you were able to amend the U.S. Constitution, what would you do?
I'd replace the Constitution with a single word: Consent.
I guess the government couldn't arrest anybody for anything since they didn't consent, huh?
Violation of the consent of others would trump violating the consent of the offender.

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TimTimothy
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by TimTimothy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:30 am

Bill Wiltrack wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:16 am
Recognize, define & commit to supporting civil rights of citizens while defining limits & purpose of government within a society.
Civil Rights would be taken care of by recognizing the right of Consent.
Purpose of Government: Protect and Promote individual right to Consent.
Limits of Government: Minimize the violation of Consent.

Impenitent
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Re: A New Constitution

Post by Impenitent » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:37 am

TimTimothy wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:52 pm
...and if you believe power is all that deserves freedom, then there's no need for a constitution, a government, or law/rule of any kind.
might makes right

-Imp

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