~ The Birth of Catalan ~

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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By, hasn't pulled the trigger yet - do you mean another civil war?




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bobevenson
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by bobevenson »

Bill Wiltrack wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:38 am .





By, hasn't pulled the trigger yet - do you mean another civil war?




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When 50.1% of the people can tell the other 49.9% what to do and how to do it, anything can happen.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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I wrote something, maybe here, where I described Democracy as an essentially brutal system, if it does not have built-in social restraints, where the slightest majority can vote to kill the minority.







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bobevenson
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by bobevenson »

That's the difference between a democracy and a republic.
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Lacewing
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by Lacewing »

Bill Wiltrack wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:30 pm I wrote something, maybe here, where I described Democracy as an essentially brutal system, if it does not have built-in social restraints, where the slightest majority can vote to kill the minority.
Lame laws (like an electoral college) can be put into place to prevent a significant majority from interfering in an agenda serving a minority. Billions of people can be ignored. Broader views can be ignored. A minority can be served instead! Is that smart? :evil:
bobevenson
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by bobevenson »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:50 pm
Bill Wiltrack wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:30 pm I wrote something, maybe here, where I described Democracy as an essentially brutal system, if it does not have built-in social restraints, where the slightest majority can vote to kill the minority.
Lame laws (like an electoral college) can be put into place to prevent a significant majority from interfering in an agenda serving a minority. Billions of people can be ignored. Broader views can be ignored. A minority can be served instead! Is that smart?
I think it's people like you that John Adams had in mind: “Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.” –John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814.
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Lacewing
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by Lacewing »

bobevenson wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:11 pm I think it's people like you that John Adams had in mind: “Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide.” –John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814.
Your comment makes no sense (as usual). How does the above quote have anything relatable to me?

And when you say "people like you", what are you referring to? I'm awesome and fun and happy! :lol: So, what's the connection?
bobevenson
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by bobevenson »

You think 50.1% of the people should be able to completely control the other 49.9%.
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Lacewing
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by Lacewing »

bobevenson wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:35 pm You think 50.1% of the people should be able to completely control the other 49.9%.
No I don't. I think billions of people's votes should not be cast aside. Don't you agree?
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by bobevenson »

You forget that it is the United States of America (50 of them), not the vast single state of China or Russia. In the USA, the House of Representatives gives the more populous states more representatives in Congress, but the Senate gives each state two regardless of size to balance population with political discreteness.
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Lacewing
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by Lacewing »

bobevenson wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:56 pm You forget that it is the United States of America (50 of them), not the vast single state of China or Russia. In the USA, the House of Representatives gives the more populous states more representatives in Congress, but the Senate gives each state two regardless of size to balance population with political discreteness.
So you think it's reasonable that billions of people's votes are cast aside so that a minority mindset can further its own agenda?
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by bobevenson »

Please, I can't get past the "billions of people" you're talking about.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

Indeed...Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million, not 3 billion, and that 3 million was mostly out of California.
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by bobevenson »

Right, that left-wing monolithic state shouldn't have absolute control over North Dakota, and that's why California has more Congressional Representatives, but the same number of Senators.
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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ The Birth of Catalan ~

Post by Arising_uk »

Given only 58% turned out to vote last time I think you can kiss goodbye to the idea that you're a representative democracy.
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