Government Control of Exports

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bobevenson
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Government Control of Exports

Post by bobevenson » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:30 pm

The U.S. had a 40-year ban on oil exports until two years ago. Banning exports of anything is an insane economic policy that is never in the best interests of any country.

Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:47 pm

bobevenson wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:30 pm
The U.S. had a 40-year ban on oil exports until two years ago. Banning exports of anything is an insane economic policy that is never in the best interests of any country.
This is Economics 101, not philosophy.

PhilX 🇺🇸

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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by bobevenson » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:08 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:47 pm
bobevenson wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:30 pm
The U.S. had a 40-year ban on oil exports until two years ago. Banning exports of anything is an insane economic policy that is never in the best interests of any country.
This is Economics 101, not philosophy.

PhilX 🇺🇸
“Philosophy of Economics” consists of inquiries concerning (a) rational choice, (b) the appraisal of economic outcomes, institutions and processes, and (c) the ontology of economic phenomena and the possibilities of acquiring knowledge of them. Although these inquiries overlap in many ways, it is useful to divide philosophy of economics in this way into three subject matters which can be regarded respectively as branches of action theory, ethics (or normative social and political philosophy), and philosophy of science. Economic theories of rationality, welfare, and social choice defend substantive philosophical theses often informed by relevant philosophical literature and of evident interest to those interested in action theory, philosophical psychology, and social and political philosophy. Economics is of particular interest to those interested in epistemology and philosophy of science both because of its detailed peculiarities and because it possesses many of the overt features of the natural sciences, while its object consists of social phenomena. -Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

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Lacewing
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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by Lacewing » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:30 pm

“Philosophy of Bobevenson” consists of never-ending rants concerning (a) anything, (b) everything, and (c) whatever he can fabricate. Although these rants overlap in many ways, it is useful to recognize that they are all driven by emotion and need. The same emotion and need drives the delusion and delight of fancying himself as a prophet, although he continually fails to deliver any worthwhile message. This is of particular interest to those interested in the humor of absurdity, and the nonsensical creative potential and beliefs of humans because of its detailed peculiarities and because it provides insight into the endless capability of humans to fascinate and baffle themselves. -Encyclopedia of Delirium
Last edited by Lacewing on Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bobevenson
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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by bobevenson » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:55 pm

And PhilX complains that my post is not philosophy.

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Lacewing
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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by Lacewing » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:03 pm

bobevenson wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:55 pm
And PhilX complains that my post is not philosophy.
What a nice and restrained response from you, Bob. I've inserted the word "Philosophy" into my post to please you.

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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by bobevenson » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:15 pm

Please, a prophet is never pleased, but merely continues lighting the lights of spiritual truth regardless of the results.

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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by Lacewing » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:09 pm

bobevenson wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:15 pm
Please, a prophet is never pleased, but merely continues lighting the lights of spiritual truth regardless of the results.
Why?

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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by bobevenson » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:17 pm

It's part of the job description.

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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:27 am

bobevenson wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:30 pm
The U.S. had a 40-year ban on oil exports until two years ago. Banning exports of anything is an insane economic policy that is never in the best interests of any country.
Show me one philosophy course at a college or university that teaches this in the US.

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Lacewing
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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by Lacewing » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:47 am

bobevenson wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:15 pm
Please, a prophet is never pleased, but merely continues lighting the lights of spiritual truth regardless of the results.
Lacewing wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:09 pm
Why?
bobevenson wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:17 pm
It's part of the job description.
No pay and no results?!!! Not much of a job!

You might wanna try branching out just a little bit. :lol:

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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:21 am

Actually, most colleges teach it, it is central to the Austrian School of Economics, and it always alongside of Marxism and Keynesian Economics has representation at least in some of the courses offered for business and economic courses, pretty much as a default. Secondly, our universities in the US are hardly the arbiters of philosophical or economic thought. A lot of the Fortune 500 grads land jobs due to connections and our ivy elite colleges, but most of our ideas come from lay people who had no schooling to community college experience at best for business and management. Why would most small business owners rush out to get a masters or PH.D if they already have a successful business? Same for philosophy, you'll notice the US has a far more diverse philosophical community than our universities (quite shallow universities, on par with Europe in poor thinking) give hint of. Most people in philosophy groups in the US lack a philosophy degree, and most who have one don't use it for anything resembling traditional conceptions of philosophy.

Now.... time to roll my sleeves up again.

Bob.... sets say instead of Fiat Currency, we had a Gold Standard. Wouldn't it be wise to put restrictions on the export of Gold, so our markets could.... market? If we run out of gold species, and everyone is on a gold standard, and people have to pay tax in gold, our society would collapse. US more or less was exactly in this position until the Civil War. Many ancient civilization's are well. The control of currency is essential. Rome was on Bronze till the 5th century BC when they had to start coining it. They they had to modulate it in terms of alloys due to trade with neighboring states and everyone using up the product. They had strict laws on mints, controlling them, how to export the quality of gold and silver, especially to distant lands such as India (only the best minted gold coins, Persians used crap, Rome more or less monopolized southern Indian trade as a result). People used to shave Gold as well.

Lots and lots of laws had to be put into place to control the export and use of gold, and how you could bank it, interest rates on loans form banks, liquidity of assets, taxation of land paid in coined currency. This stuff wasn't easy.

Now consider oil. It keeps the economy moving. Germany more or less collapsed recently when it's gas and electric systems (solar and wind) went to shit in a bad storm, Poland had to save them. There isn't a market correction for stupid Merle and her Green policies. She got rid of nuclear power for no good reason, sucks a lot of Russian oil (funds killing Ukrainians by the Russian army) but not nearly enough to make up for the sudden collapse in energy. US had similar energy collapses in the past, such as when OPEC hit us with a massive embargo, we had long waits outside of gas stations. We've also have had bad brownouts in liberal areas like California due to booming population, and not enough power plants (because power plants are evil).

Laissez Faire Economics doesn't exactly correct the fundamentals of economics, such as currency or power or water needs. Infrastructure and regulatory bodies, bodies that have to be aware and nimble do. It is like the canals of ancient Iraq, you gotta constantly keep them maintained, but no matter how maintained they are, the canals are dependent upon the river for supply, and if something happens to that, you're screwed. In order to have a system of free trade Economics, and a strong economy, you'll need not just protections for property, but also protections for keeping currency (whatever you use) afloat and valid, and the infrastructure a society needs to reasonably maintain it. The modern world is built on coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear power, with some token solar and wind. I myself use solar and gas (Petroleum and Propane) My neighbors use coal and natural gas. If I have troubles with electricity, they don't necessarily, and sometimes it is just me with power when the grid fails. We all use the fiat currency, and that currency is regulated off of bank success in collecting off of successful loans. So we as a result manipulate the market so nothing bad happens to our most important sources of power, as well as make sure our banks don't collapse. Both requires a lot of smart people, effort. When you have smart, educated people making strategic decisions, the economy prospers. When you have wicked evil liberals doing it, we all suffer. It is as simple as that. God Bless Donald Trump.

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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:27 am

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:21 am
Actually, most colleges teach it, it is central to the Austrian School of Economics, and it always alongside of Marxism and Keynesian Economics has representation at least in some of the courses offered for business and economic courses, pretty much as a default. Secondly, our universities in the US are hardly the arbiters of philosophical or economic thought. A lot of the Fortune 500 grads land jobs due to connections and our ivy elite colleges, but most of our ideas come from lay people who had no schooling to community college experience at best for business and management. Why would most small business owners rush out to get a masters or PH.D if they already have a successful business? Same for philosophy, you'll notice the US has a far more diverse philosophical community than our universities (quite shallow universities, on par with Europe in poor thinking) give hint of. Most people in philosophy groups in the US lack a philosophy degree, and most who have one don't use it for anything resembling traditional conceptions of philosophy.

Now.... time to roll my sleeves up again.

Bob.... sets say instead of Fiat Currency, we had a Gold Standard. Wouldn't it be wise to put restrictions on the export of Gold, so our markets could.... market? If we run out of gold species, and everyone is on a gold standard, and people have to pay tax in gold, our society would collapse. US more or less was exactly in this position until the Civil War. Many ancient civilization's are well. The control of currency is essential. Rome was on Bronze till the 5th century BC when they had to start coining it. They they had to modulate it in terms of alloys due to trade with neighboring states and everyone using up the product. They had strict laws on mints, controlling them, how to export the quality of gold and silver, especially to distant lands such as India (only the best minted gold coins, Persians used crap, Rome more or less monopolized southern Indian trade as a result). People used to shave Gold as well.

Lots and lots of laws had to be put into place to control the export and use of gold, and how you could bank it, interest rates on loans form banks, liquidity of assets, taxation of land paid in coined currency. This stuff wasn't easy.

Now consider oil. It keeps the economy moving. Germany more or less collapsed recently when it's gas and electric systems (solar and wind) went to shit in a bad storm, Poland had to save them. There isn't a market correction for stupid Merle and her Green policies. She got rid of nuclear power for no good reason, sucks a lot of Russian oil (funds killing Ukrainians by the Russian army) but not nearly enough to make up for the sudden collapse in energy. US had similar energy collapses in the past, such as when OPEC hit us with a massive embargo, we had long waits outside of gas stations. We've also have had bad brownouts in liberal areas like California due to booming population, and not enough power plants (because power plants are evil).

Laissez Faire Economics doesn't exactly correct the fundamentals of economics, such as currency or power or water needs. Infrastructure and regulatory bodies, bodies that have to be aware and nimble do. It is like the canals of ancient Iraq, you gotta constantly keep them maintained, but no matter how maintained they are, the canals are dependent upon the river for supply, and if something happens to that, you're screwed. In order to have a system of free trade Economics, and a strong economy, you'll need not just protections for property, but also protections for keeping currency (whatever you use) afloat and valid, and the infrastructure a society needs to reasonably maintain it. The modern world is built on coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear power, with some token solar and wind. I myself use solar and gas (Petroleum and Propane) My neighbors use coal and natural gas. If I have troubles with electricity, they don't necessarily, and sometimes it is just me with power when the grid fails. We all use the fiat currency, and that currency is regulated off of bank success in collecting off of successful loans. So we as a result manipulate the market so nothing bad happens to our most important sources of power, as well as make sure our banks don't collapse. Both requires a lot of smart people, effort. When you have smart, educated people making strategic decisions, the economy prospers. When you have wicked evil liberals doing it, we all suffer. It is as simple as that. God Bless Donald Trump.
Still looking for what Bob claims is philosophy so it's reasonable to expect his OP to be part of a philosophy course at a college or university.

Your post seems to suggest what Bob claims really doesn't exist.

PhilX 🇺🇸
Last edited by Philosophy Explorer on Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:53 am

Nope, reread it. Bob is pushing a rather generic free market argument here, could be capitalist, could be anarchist, doesn't matter. I'm merely pointing out historically, societies that embrace currency and munincipal/regional public works for water access or electric/fuel needs, have to do a lot more work than is obvious at first glance. Why most Austrian Economic advocates demand governments work on roads and military, as well as the courts to the extent of protecting property and the most violent of criminals, and nothing else. They can see only as far as the means to propping up their livelyhood allows.

If you have no obvious business investment, and don't understand the concept of a commonwealth, where your society's wealth ultimately comes from, it sorta makes sense to say what Bob is saying, seems idiotic and threatening.... "what do you mean I can't sell my own oil to whomever I please" or in the case of Hillary Clinton in her current Russian Uranium row "What do you mean I can't sell American Uranium in order to get Russia to influence the election and prop up my accounts illegally, that uranium is my personal property".

Property Laws in a society tends to dictate just how you can discharge your assets, and to whom. Not just anyone can buy anything, and we tend to learn about this the hard way, when we screw up, and realize we really didn't think stuff through.

This has been a important area of philosophy for centuries. It definitely 100% belongs in philosophy, isn't something justifiably exiled from philosophy.

Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Government Control of Exports

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:01 am

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:53 am
Nope, reread it. Bob is pushing a rather generic free market argument here, could be capitalist, could be anarchist, doesn't matter. I'm merely pointing out historically, societies that embrace currency and munincipal/regional public works for water access or electric/fuel needs, have to do a lot more work than is obvious at first glance. Why most Austrian Economic advocates demand governments work on roads and military, as well as the courts to the extent of protecting property and the most violent of criminals, and nothing else. They can see only as far as the means to propping up their livelyhood allows.

If you have no obvious business investment, and don't understand the concept of a commonwealth, where your society's wealth ultimately comes from, it sorta makes sense to say what Bob is saying, seems idiotic and threatening.... "what do you mean I can't sell my own oil to whomever I please" or in the case of Hillary Clinton in her current Russian Uranium row "What do you mean I can't sell American Uranium in order to get Russia to influence the election and prop up my accounts illegally, that uranium is my personal property".

Property Laws in a society tends to dictate just how you can discharge your assets, and to whom. Not just anyone can buy anything, and we tend to learn about this the hard way, when we screw up, and realize we really didn't think stuff through.

This has been a important area of philosophy for centuries. It definitely 100% belongs in philosophy, isn't something justifiably exiled from philosophy.
Call it what you like. Unless what Bob brought up can be shown to be taught at American colleges and universities as part of a philosophy course, then I can rightfully claim that his economics OP isn't philosophy as I have to expect.

PhilX 🇺🇸

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