Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by Belinda » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:57 pm

Donald Trump: The less immigrants we let in the better
Mike Pence: The fewer
Donald Trump: Shhh, don't call be that in public yet.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:47 pm

Perhaps people should concentrate more on making their own countries into pleasant places than scouting around the world to find ones that the inhabitants have taken the effort to make into nice places to live. A country is only the people who inhabit it. It rather defeats the purpose to descend on a nice country like a swarm of locusts and made it as horrible as the one you left (or worse than), with the same problems. Humans have never been particularly logical as a species.
Btw, the US has very strict immigration policies already, and has had for a long time.
This thread is just a mischievous red herring.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by -1- » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:41 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:47 pm
Btw, the US has very strict immigration policies already, and has had for a long time.
Hence the forty million unregistered and undeclared and unencountered and unencumbered illegal immigrants. If the policies were not strict, there would be 3 billion already, if not more.

I am actually not mocking you, Vege. You are absolutely right with this trivia. American embassies and consulates around the world are brimming with line-ups around them, people wishing to immigrate to the US. Only a fraction gets through.

And that's only the embassy entrance door.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:00 pm

-1- wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:41 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:47 pm
Btw, the US has very strict immigration policies already, and has had for a long time.
Hence the forty million unregistered and undeclared and unencountered and unencumbered illegal immigrants. If the policies were not strict, there would be 3 billion already, if not more.

I am actually not mocking you, Vege. You are absolutely right with this trivia. American embassies and consulates around the world are brimming with line-ups around them, people wishing to immigrate to the US. Only a fraction gets through.

And that's only the embassy entrance door.
So it makes no difference then whether or not you make already strict immigration laws stricter. And I don't know why Americans think their's is the only country with an influx of people from less pleasant countries swarming in to turn their country of choice into the same unpleasant places they left. Mass immigration here has completely altered the character of this country. Immigrants are all voting for the right-wing fascist political party whereas the country as a whole has always been traditionally left leaning. We have the faux 'left' cunts to thank for that and a cynical and self-serving facist 'neo-liberal' Govt. that is well aware of this fact and is keeping the door open simply for the extra votes.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by Skip » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:43 pm

All those chickens got to roost someplace.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:46 pm

-1- wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:41 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:47 pm
Btw, the US has very strict immigration policies already, and has had for a long time.
Hence the forty million unregistered and undeclared and unencountered and unencumbered illegal immigrants. If the policies were not strict, there would be 3 billion already, if not more.

I am actually not mocking you, Vege. You are absolutely right with this trivia. American embassies and consulates around the world are brimming with line-ups around them, people wishing to immigrate to the US. Only a fraction gets through.

And that's only the embassy entrance door.
If they are 'undeclared and unencoutered' how does anyone know they are there?

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by -1- » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:59 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:46 pm

If they are 'undeclared and unencoutered' how does anyone know they are there?
Very sly immigration officials counted them. Very sly. Very, very, very, very sly immigration officials.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by -1- » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:10 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:00 pm
an influx of people from less pleasant countries swarming in to turn their country of choice into the same unpleasant places they left. Mass immigration here has completely altered the character of this country. Immigrants are all voting for the right-wing fascist political party whereas the country as a whole has always been traditionally left leaning.
It would be interesting to know what country you are talking about. The US of A has the same spirit of cultural values as it always had: hard work is revered, it's a Christian nation, Blacks are second-class citizens, who can't get housing and jobs; there are the extremely rich, the extremely poor, and the extremely middle-class; it's a prudent, puritanic, prudish country, with violence on the rise and then plateauing out since the advent of the drug age; lots of money floating around, enterprise is allowed, encouraged and respected; people are monogamous; slim is in, fat is out, and half the nation is "in", the other half is "way, way, out"; there is the American Dream still intact (get a Cadillac and hit the road); there is nary any difference in the values of Americans now as back 20, 30, 50, 70 years ago.

I am not aware of the situation re: immigration in your country, and how it turns your country into something you wish it weren't turning into.

But lastly, Americans will never be accused of being left-leaning.

My country is Canada, and other than Toronto and Vancouver, the same values prevail as they historically always have. Other than being an Atheist, I assumed and assimilated the culture, and myself into it. I love it here, I don't want to change anything about it. And yes, this country IS left leaning. That has not changed, either, immigration or not.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:09 am

-1- wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:10 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:00 pm
an influx of people from less pleasant countries swarming in to turn their country of choice into the same unpleasant places they left. Mass immigration here has completely altered the character of this country. Immigrants are all voting for the right-wing fascist political party whereas the country as a whole has always been traditionally left leaning.
It would be interesting to know what country you are talking about. The US of A has the same spirit of cultural values as it always had: hard work is revered, it's a Christian nation, Blacks are second-class citizens, who can't get housing and jobs; there are the extremely rich, the extremely poor, and the extremely middle-class; it's a prudent, puritanic, prudish country, with violence on the rise and then plateauing out since the advent of the drug age; lots of money floating around, enterprise is allowed, encouraged and respected; people are monogamous; slim is in, fat is out, and half the nation is "in", the other half is "way, way, out"; there is the American Dream still intact (get a Cadillac and hit the road); there is nary any difference in the values of Americans now as back 20, 30, 50, 70 years ago.

I am not aware of the situation re: immigration in your country, and how it turns your country into something you wish it weren't turning into.

But lastly, Americans will never be accused of being left-leaning.

My country is Canada, and other than Toronto and Vancouver, the same values prevail as they historically always have. Other than being an Atheist, I assumed and assimilated the culture, and myself into it. I love it here, I don't want to change anything about it. And yes, this country IS left leaning. That has not changed, either, immigration or not.
Then imagine Canada if ten million right-wingers moved there in a short space of time. Do you think your country would still be the same? No, it wouldn't. The character and identity of the country would change. Or 10 million Russians. Or muslims. Or Turks. Or Indians. They wouldn't change to assimilate and adopt your ways. They wouldn't have to because there were so many of them. It might be a good thing for your country but I liked living in a left-leaning, fair, and friendly place where there were no beggars and no homeless people. And that's not a fantasy--it was reality until less than a decade ago.
You don't get it. It's the immigrants who are skewing the elections so the right-wing neo-liberal party wins. It's proven by the results. I'm not pulling that out of my arse. You only have to live here a few months to get a fucking vote. If that's not obvious I don't know what is. And then there are the dangling carrots allowing them to bring their aged parents as well, to get the generous pension here. Immigration is fine in manageable numbers, not when the host culture becomes the minority! It's a bit rich to leave a country you don't like, only to turn the one you went to into the same kind of shit-hole you left in the first place. Plus, the infrastructure is starting to fail with the unnatural increase in population.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by -1- » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:46 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:09 am

(1) You don't get it. It's the immigrants who are skewing the elections so (2) the right-wing neo-liberal party wins. (3) It's proven by the results. I'm not pulling that out of my arse. (4) You only have to live here a few months to get a fucking vote. (5) If that's not obvious I don't know what is.
(1) You're right. Because
(2) I imagine "neo-liberal" is still liberal, which is left side, not right wing. By definition. So in your country it's different. Neo-liberal is right wing. Is yours a communist country? Because to be left of liberal...
(3) I have no doubt that you know what you're talking about.
(4) That's unique, getting the vote after only a few months. Which country do you live in? In any other country, you need to be a citizen in order to get the vote, and to get naturalized citizenship, the wait is 3 years long (in Canada) and 5 years long (in Hungary) to 25 years long (was the case in West Germany 50 years ago.) But none of these countries had had colonies... maybe you live in France... but your English is too good for that. Or you live in the Netherlands... Belgium? Portugal? These countries had had colonies in places that are now predominantly Muslim.
(5) I don't know why you expect me to know things that are obvious in your place, but unheard of in mine. I don't doubt your words, but they are all new to me. Honest. I haven't ever heard of a country which gives the vote to immigrants after a few months. That is new to me, not obvious.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:20 am

-1- wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:46 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:09 am

(1) You don't get it. It's the immigrants who are skewing the elections so (2) the right-wing neo-liberal party wins. (3) It's proven by the results. I'm not pulling that out of my arse. (4) You only have to live here a few months to get a fucking vote. (5) If that's not obvious I don't know what is.
(1) You're right. Because
(2) I imagine "neo-liberal" is still liberal, which is left side, not right wing. By definition. So in your country it's different. Neo-liberal is right wing. Is yours a communist country? Because to be left of liberal...
(3) I have no doubt that you know what you're talking about.
(4) That's unique, getting the vote after only a few months. Which country do you live in? In any other country, you need to be a citizen in order to get the vote, and to get naturalized citizenship, the wait is 3 years long (in Canada) and 5 years long (in Hungary) to 25 years long (was the case in West Germany 50 years ago.) But none of these countries had had colonies... maybe you live in France... but your English is too good for that. Or you live in the Netherlands... Belgium? Portugal? These countries had had colonies in places that are now predominantly Muslim.
(5) I don't know why you expect me to know things that are obvious in your place, but unheard of in mine. I don't doubt your words, but they are all new to me. Honest. I haven't ever heard of a country which gives the vote to immigrants after a few months. That is new to me, not obvious.
Look up neo-liberal. Liberal doesn't mean anything any more. In Australia the 'Liberal' party is the right-wing one. Margaret Thatcher's was a 'neo-liberal' govt. If you have to put 'neo' in front of something then you know it's a con.
I can just google how long you have to be in other countries to vote. It's not relevant to me and it's just bloody depressing really.
Where did I say I expected you to know the laws here? I'm just telling you, as you are telling me what Canada does!
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by -1- » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:31 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:20 am

Look up neo-liberal. Liberal doesn't mean anything any more.
"LIberal" means to me the same as it always has. And "neo" means new. If the language disregards these, then actually anything goes, and there is no point in looking up anything, because anything can mean anything.

"Liberal doesn't mean anything any more." Then why look it up?

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:43 am

-1- wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:31 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:20 am

Look up neo-liberal. Liberal doesn't mean anything any more.
"LIberal" means to me the same as it always has. And "neo" means new. If the language disregards these, then actually anything goes, and there is no point in looking up anything, because anything can mean anything.

"Liberal doesn't mean anything any more." Then why look it up?
Don't tell me that. Tell it to the yanks. They are the ones who keep misusing words and ruining the language. You are preaching to the choir with me. I didn't ask you to look up 'liberal' I said 'neo-liberal'. It's a political term! Liberal does not mean 'left wing'. It's all too convoluted now anyway. The word is worthless. This is hard work.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:14 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:... You only have to live here a few months to get a fucking vote. ...
Australia? It takes fours years to become a citizen and you need to be that before you can vote.

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Re: Comment by Fatbelly, Guardian today

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:56 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:14 pm
Australia? It takes fours years to become a citizen and you need to be that before you can vote.
So?

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