Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

My certificate is my voice when I tell you 'no, I'm not doin' that', and my fists when you press the issue.

My certificate is 'me'.

Now, if you wanna keep demandin' proofs when all the proof you need stares back at you when you look in the mirror, fine, have at it, but me: kinda done with this back and forth...ain't gettin' either of us anywhere except agitated at the other, and I don't know you well enough to invest that much...I'm a finite resource and you're a stranger to me.
Science Fan
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by Science Fan »

Doesn't sound like you are really the owner of yourself. You have no title of ownership.
Science Fan
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by Science Fan »

What stares back at me is a person who is not owned by anyone, including myself. It's been days now and you still have not offered a single argument as to how there is a distinction to be made between a person who has no owner and a person who owns himself. I'm not owned by anyone, which is why neither myself, nor anyone else, has any ownership certificate for me.
RogerFarinha
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by RogerFarinha »

The answer to your general inquiry about why Americans resist seeing the benefits of a single-payer is:

1. Capitalist interests (business and corporations) have used the old war against communism to their robber baron agenda of keeping Americans away from any hint of the benefit of some socialist solutions.

2. Bureaucratic centralization does inherently involve waste, so that a mixture of competition and the benefit of some socialist approaches needs to be pursued. Americans are too polarized, however, partly due to the political agenda mentioned above, to think so creatively.

3. See my treatment of the healthcare issue in more detail here:

https://newamericanspring.blogspot.com/ ... e-fix.html

Roger
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Greatest I am
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by Greatest I am »

Science Fan wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:04 pm Doesn't sound like you are really the owner of yourself. You have no title of ownership.
Who owns you if not yourself?

Only you can voluntarily make you do anything and that means you are your own master and owner.

You are either free or bound. Which is it?

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DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by Greatest I am »

Science Fan wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:06 pm What stares back at me is a person who is not owned by anyone, including myself. It's been days now and you still have not offered a single argument as to how there is a distinction to be made between a person who has no owner and a person who owns himself. I'm not owned by anyone, which is why neither myself, nor anyone else, has any ownership certificate for me.
The only real certificate of ownership is your will.

A slave does not work because his master has a piece of paper. He works because his will tells him to do so. That is what is basically owned and it is the seat of the owners control.

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DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by Greatest I am »

RogerFarinha wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:35 am The answer to your general inquiry about why Americans resist seeing the benefits of a single-payer is:

1. Capitalist interests (business and corporations) have used the old war against communism to their robber baron agenda of keeping Americans away from any hint of the benefit of some socialist solutions.

2. Bureaucratic centralization does inherently involve waste, so that a mixture of competition and the benefit of some socialist approaches needs to be pursued. Americans are too polarized, however, partly due to the political agenda mentioned above, to think so creatively.

3. See my treatment of the healthcare issue in more detail here:

https://newamericanspring.blogspot.com/ ... e-fix.html

Roger
Well put and I agree.

I will follow your link.

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DL
bobevenson
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by bobevenson »

What the hell does a gain in GDP have to do with health care?
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Greatest I am
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by Greatest I am »

I chose that arbitrarily.

Use whatever metric you like. The result in savings is the same.

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DL
bobevenson
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by bobevenson »

What the hell does a 6% gain in savings have to do with health care?
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Greatest I am
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by Greatest I am »

bobevenson wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:32 pm What the hell does a 6% gain in savings have to do with health care?
Read the O.P.

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DL
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

bobevenson wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:24 pm What the hell does a gain in GDP have to do with health care?
You're the divinely inspired guru of all the economic shit aren't you?
You can hardly need foreigners to tell you what misallocations of labour and capital are when you have Jeebus to guide you.
bobevenson
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by bobevenson »

Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:02 pm
bobevenson wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:32 pm What the hell does a 6% gain in savings have to do with health care?
Read the O.P.

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DL
Actually, there's nothing wrong with the government setting up a health care account for everybody to pay for their health care expenses as long as everybody receives the same amount of money, rich or poor. Of course, this would be a very expensive proposition for Americans since they are forced to carry the rest of the world on their back.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by Greatest I am »

bobevenson wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:33 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:02 pm
bobevenson wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:32 pm What the hell does a 6% gain in savings have to do with health care?
Read the O.P.

Regards
DL
Actually, there's nothing wrong with the government setting up a health care account for everybody to pay for their health care expenses as long as everybody receives the same amount of money, rich or poor. Of course, this would be a very expensive proposition for Americans since they are forced to carry the rest of the world on their back.
Are you suggesting that if a person does not need medical care, he should still get paid by the system of health care designed to pay only for health care?

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DL
bobevenson
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Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Post by bobevenson »

Yes, it would be proper for the government to set up a health care account for every man, woman and child. This account would receive an annual government increase, and could be used for everything health related, from a bottle of aspirin to a heart transplant. Upon death, the account would be added to the next of kin.
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