The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Locked
bobevenson
Posts: 7349
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson »

I don't know how much simpler I can make AEP taxation theory, but I'll try again. Other than protecting us from external enemies as well as ourselves, the primary function of government is the protection of property, all property, personal property and company property. There is only one ultimate source of funds to do this, and that is the value of all the property being protected. This requires a uniform tax rate on the value of all property being protected. All other taxes are abolished.
Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

bobevenson wrote:I don't know how much simpler I can make AEP taxation theory, but I'll try again. Other than protecting us from external enemies as well as ourselves, the primary function of government is the protection of property, all property, personal property and company property. There is only one ultimate source of funds to do this, and that is the value of all the property being protected. This requires a uniform tax rate on the value of all property being protected. All other taxes are abolished.
Dead wrong about the primary function of the US government. From the preamble to the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

No mention of property. How's that for nitpicking? You need more divine guidance.

PhilX
Obvious Leo
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:05 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by Obvious Leo »

FlashDangerpants wrote:If Bob is blessed with heavenly guidance in this thread, I demand recognition for the saintly patience I have been granted also.
I am in awe of your patience as well as grateful to you, not only for your knowledgeable explanations of some rather complex questions but also for your clarity of language, a useful tradition mostly ignored in the jargon of econospeak.
bobevenson
Posts: 7349
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson »

I'm sorry, but none of you people have the slightest idea of what I'm talking about. You will have to wait until the AEP and Evensonomics become operational and make everyone else look like the fools they truly are!
User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 12313
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by Arising_uk »

bobevenson wrote:I'm sorry, but none of you people have the slightest idea of what I'm talking about. ...
And from the sounds of it neither do you or at least the ramifications of what you propose. But unlike the others I think you do know as your job is to give the world to 'Satan' and the 'Beast' is it not.
You will have to wait until the AEP and Evensonomics become operational and make everyone else look like the fools they truly are!
Would that be absolute fools bob? :lol:
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2469
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by FlashDangerpants »

bobevenson wrote:There is only one ultimate source of funds to do this, and that is the value of all the property being protected.
The value of the property has one of two basic sources.
One is the value that people place on it at their discretion (which depends upon how much they can afford to spend - which depends upon their income).
The other is the potential income that can be expected from the property.
The deciding factor obviously being whether they are buying it as a result of desire, or for purposes of investment.
Without these incomes dependent factors, there wouldn't be a market value to anything at all.

While we are at it. Incomes precede value, because all property is stored wealth accumulated from saved incomes.

And even that doesn't matter. It makes no difference what you claim you are taxing, the result has to be that you are taxing incomes because there is nothing that can be taxed without that same cost being passed on to incomes. If you don't tax incomes directly, you are just taxing them indirectly, but with distortions resulting from the ability of some parties to avoid paying.
bobevenson
Posts: 7349
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson »

Since money is a medium of exchange based directly on property, taxation of property is paid with that money regardless of its source. Aren't you glad you have a divinely inspired prophet of all things spiritual, political and economic to guide you?
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk »

"pretty savage cuts to spending"

A good place to start.
bobevenson
Posts: 7349
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson »

Yes, that would be eliminating the improper government spending of all that tax money.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk »

"taxation of property is paid with that money regardless of its source"

But since the tax is paid with income (source being irrelevant) why not just simplify and - as I say - go with a flat rate (I say ten, Flash sez thirty), no exceptions, exemptions, incentives, loopholes, or outs, with a low income cutoff (I threw out $20,000 but I'm not married to it).

Simply: Joe has an aggregated, total income of ABC and he pays X% on that income (one annual payment, 12 monthly payments, or 52 weekly payments).

Of course such a scheme won't bring in enough, but then the current scheme doesn't either (if it did, China wouldn't hold the note on the U.S.). As long as taxpayers let the powers spend, there's gonna be debt, and no scheme will work properly if not married to a held-to budget.

A flat tax shines cuz there little room for wiggling or interpretation...gov gets what it gets and it must make do...and it's 'fair' in the extreme.
bobevenson
Posts: 7349
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson »

Theoretically, all money is based on property, but only taxing income is only taxing currently produced property, and the AEP position is that all property should be taxed since all property is being protected by the government.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by henry quirk »

"Theoretically, all money is based on property"

Yes, and bottom line that property is the 'man-hour' (more accurately, the Henry-hour, the Bob-hour, etc.). Money is a reservoir of value, that value being determined by the one who must expend him- or her-self and the one willing to compensate the other for such an expenditure.

So, while taxing (external) property is attractive to me, directly taxing the Henry-hour is cleaner, more direct (and is a kind of [intrinsic value] property tax).
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2469
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by FlashDangerpants »

All economic activity becomes incomes at the end of the chain (before the earner spends it a new chain begins). Taxes against incomes are the govt taking a slice of ongoing economic activity.

The money you spend on purchases often results in you owning of property that is not economically active for a period of time thereafter. You may never sell your TV or your computer, they will become worthless over time and be sent to the dump. Your house and garden might not be a business that generates income.

Continually taxing that property removes the link between economic activity and the govt's tax take which would cause strange disturbances and would have unwanted side effects such as forcing property that people did not wish to sell to be sold.

A property tax that forces people to sell their property when they have no desire to sell and no previous need is tyrannical.

An income tax that brings the state a proportion of the normal economic activity that people do wish to engage in and are not forced into is less so.
bobevenson
Posts: 7349
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson »

All property should be taxed on a continuous basis for the continuous protection it receives, you know, just like your utility bill for the continuing service you receive.
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2469
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by FlashDangerpants »

That's just the government renting you back your own shit every month.
Utter tyranny.
Locked