Philosophy Now Forum

Only serious suggestions are appreciated.

Thank you.

Yes, at least it's not Catholicism.

Its followers are pressed to refrain from smoking and consuming alcohol. These are drugs, yet admittedly, you consume the bigger drug of Islam, to side-step the former.

the architecture is impressive

-Imp

Pluto wrote:Its followers are pressed to refrain from smoking and consuming alcohol. These are drugs, yet admittedly, you consume the bigger drug of Islam, to side-step the former.

I think you might be wrong about smoking.
They make a fetish out of smoking in the Islamic countries I have visited.
I was constantly being offered a hookah (shisha).

Impenitent wrote:the architecture is impressive

-Imp

I don't that "Islam" has any architectural designs in it, as such.

Nothing good ever came out of believing absurdities without evidence. There's no good to any religion. The difference between Islam and Christianity as they are practiced today is that Christianity has been (largely) tamed by the secularism that has arisen from the enlightenment in the last 400 years. If you compare the Christianity of 400-500 years ago with the Islam of today there is literally no difference between them.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Pluto wrote:Its followers are pressed to refrain from smoking and consuming alcohol. These are drugs, yet admittedly, you consume the bigger drug of Islam, to side-step the former.

I think you might be wrong about smoking.
They make a fetish out of smoking in the Islamic countries I have visited.
I was constantly being offered a hookah (shisha).

Yes point taken. I was thinking of those young modern islamists who refrain from smoking 'western-style' cigarettes, such as Marlboro, etc.

In the early centuries of Islam scholars were granted a degree of intellectual freedom which was unheard of in Christian Europe at the time. All of the arts and sciences flourished without interference from either church or state in universities which were a beacon for some of the sharpest minds in the Islamic world. After the crusades much of this knowledge eventually found its way into the cloistered houses of European learning via the Moors in Spain. However most of the Islamic world failed to capitalise on its promising start as it gradually fell under the sway of rival factional warlords. They haven't stopped fighting with each other ever since and every time other countries poke their noses in it only seems to make matters worse. Gods are an even more stupid myth than money on which to found a culture.

It's colour-blind.

It helps the poor and needy.

It does not practice usury.

It recommends that it's followers must follow the laws of the country they are in.

BigWhit wrote:Nothing good ever came out of believing absurdities without evidence. There's no good to any religion. The difference between Islam and Christianity as they are practiced today is that Christianity has been (largely) tamed by the secularism that has arisen from the enlightenment in the last 400 years. If you compare the Christianity of 400-500 years ago with the Islam of today there is literally no difference between them.

You are basically correct except that you are ignorant of the breadth of belief that Islam characterises. And possibly ignoring some of the most radical forms of Christianity.

You are also guilty of massive hyperbole. Did you really mean "literally no difference"? How about the belief that Mohammed was a prophet? That is a big literal difference.

Pluto wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Pluto wrote:Its followers are pressed to refrain from smoking and consuming alcohol. These are drugs, yet admittedly, you consume the bigger drug of Islam, to side-step the former.

I think you might be wrong about smoking.
They make a fetish out of smoking in the Islamic countries I have visited.
I was constantly being offered a hookah (shisha).

Yes point taken. I was thinking of those young modern islamists who refrain from smoking 'western-style' cigarettes, such as Marlboro, etc.

Never heard of them.

Obvious Leo wrote:In the early centuries of Islam scholars were granted a degree of intellectual freedom which was unheard of in Christian Europe at the time. All of the arts and sciences flourished without interference from either church or state in universities which were a beacon for some of the sharpest minds in the Islamic world. After the crusades much of this knowledge eventually found its way into the cloistered houses of European learning via the Moors in Spain. However most of the Islamic world failed to capitalise on its promising start as it gradually fell under the sway of rival factional warlords. They haven't stopped fighting with each other ever since and every time other countries poke their noses in it only seems to make matters worse. Gods are an even more stupid myth than money on which to found a culture.

This statement defies belief, condensing a thousand years of history into a single myopic falsehood;
" via the Moors in Spain. However most of the Islamic world failed to capitalise on its promising start as it gradually fell under the sway of rival factional warlords."

In a very important way it was the success of Islam that snuffed out that fluorescence, as its spiney fingers started to form into a fist. In much the same way the the Christianised Roman Empire closed the schools of philosophy and imposed a continent wide Aristotelean/Christian dogma after Justinian.
It was not really until the big schism in Christianity that learning was able to find a way between the cracks.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Obvious Leo wrote:In the early centuries of Islam scholars were granted a degree of intellectual freedom which was unheard of in Christian Europe at the time. All of the arts and sciences flourished without interference from either church or state in universities which were a beacon for some of the sharpest minds in the Islamic world. After the crusades much of this knowledge eventually found its way into the cloistered houses of European learning via the Moors in Spain. However most of the Islamic world failed to capitalise on its promising start as it gradually fell under the sway of rival factional warlords. They haven't stopped fighting with each other ever since and every time other countries poke their noses in it only seems to make matters worse. Gods are an even more stupid myth than money on which to found a culture.

This statement defies belief, condensing a thousand years of history into a single myopic falsehood;
" via the Moors in Spain. However most of the Islamic world failed to capitalise on its promising start as it gradually fell under the sway of rival factional warlords."

In a very important way it was the success of Islam that snuffed out that fluorescence, as its spiney fingers started to form into a fist. In much the same way the the Christianised Roman Empire closed the schools of philosophy and imposed a continent wide Aristotelean/Christian dogma after Justinian.
It was not really until the big schism in Christianity that learning was able to find a way between the cracks.

None of what you say here refutes what I said. I've always maintained that religious belief of all sorts has been the single greatest impediment to human progress throughout human history. Are you denying that the arts and sciences flourished under early Islam?

Obvious Leo wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Obvious Leo wrote:In the early centuries of Islam scholars were granted a degree of intellectual freedom which was unheard of in Christian Europe at the time. All of the arts and sciences flourished without interference from either church or state in universities which were a beacon for some of the sharpest minds in the Islamic world. After the crusades much of this knowledge eventually found its way into the cloistered houses of European learning via the Moors in Spain. However most of the Islamic world failed to capitalise on its promising start as it gradually fell under the sway of rival factional warlords. They haven't stopped fighting with each other ever since and every time other countries poke their noses in it only seems to make matters worse. Gods are an even more stupid myth than money on which to found a culture.

This statement defies belief, condensing a thousand years of history into a single myopic falsehood;
" via the Moors in Spain. However most of the Islamic world failed to capitalise on its promising start as it gradually fell under the sway of rival factional warlords."

In a very important way it was the success of Islam that snuffed out that fluorescence, as its spiney fingers started to form into a fist. In much the same way the the Christianised Roman Empire closed the schools of philosophy and imposed a continent wide Aristotelean/Christian dogma after Justinian.
It was not really until the big schism in Christianity that learning was able to find a way between the cracks.

None of what you say here refutes what I said. I've always maintained that religious belief of all sorts has been the single greatest impediment to human progress throughout human history. Are you denying that the arts and sciences flourished under early Islam?

Exactly. I deny it thoroughly. You might as well say that space science and genetic flourished under Christianity.
Arts and Science flourished despite Islam, and with each century its progress diminished and Islam spread.

This modern ("Islam is nice") myth relies on the fact that after the fall of Rome much of our ancient writing was preserved in Arabic during the european dark age. Many of the texts were re-learned subsequently.
Just because learning continued after Mohammed as well as before him, does not mean that we "owe" Islam the few nuggets we got from it.
I don't know if you have anything in mind specifically, but I can't think of much in the period in which Islam was fully in control of N Africa, and the Middle East that actually advanced human knowledge.
Most of what the Arabs taught was Ptolemy, Euclid and Aristotle, bringing the decimal system from the far east.