Philosophy Now Forum

Hi all,

Just had a thought, although Quantitative Easing prompted the idea, and wanted some input.

What if we had zero taxation and the government kept the right to print money?

- no taxation, a massive burden removed from the people, also the compliance cost and the taxation system cost are gone
- the government (assume a democracy) has to say what they will do and then create the money they need to do it
- inflation (created by the money created) is the effective tax rate on the people as QE reduces the dollar by creating more money

Cheers,

Wootah

The greed of American labor has already priced us out of the world labor market, the runaway inflation would only make it worse. Cut government spending for pork barrel programs and internal and foreign subsidies and you might start to eliminate the debt.

thedoc wrote:The greed of American labor has already priced us out of the world labor market, the runaway inflation would only make it worse. Cut government spending for pork barrel programs and internal and foreign subsidies and you might start to eliminate the debt.

Yes cutting back is the solution to saving. I was just wondering about the specific suggestion.

Subsidies are a good place to start both foreign and domestic, and there are probably more than you and I are aware of.

Did you know that (unless it's been eliminated) there is a subsidy for farmers to not grow anything, in order to keep the price of certain crops up, but there is also a board that regulates other prices to keep them low. The government preaches 'free market economy' but doesn't practice it.

long live Weimar

-Imp

Wootah wrote:Hi all,

Just had a thought, although Quantitative Easing prompted the idea, and wanted some input.

What if we had zero taxation and the government kept the right to print money?

- no taxation, a massive burden removed from the people, also the compliance cost and the taxation system cost are gone
- the government (assume a democracy) has to say what they will do and then create the money they need to do it
- inflation (created by the money created) is the effective tax rate on the people as QE reduces the dollar by creating more money

Cheers,

Wootah

That's an excellent idea, and it would also provide a stimulus for manufacturing large wheelbarrows to carry money for a loaf of bread (in November 1923, during Weimar Germany's hyperinflation, a loaf of bread cost 3 billion marks; however the German treasury printed 1-billion-mark notes so you would only need 3 notes to pay for a loaf. If you had to pay with lower denomination older notes, you can imagine that even with 1,000-mark notes, it would take more than a wheelbarrow to transport 3 million of them).

Yes but it would be controlled, in that the govt says, this year we need x billion for what we want to do and It would be controlled by the election process.

So the inflation rate would be known and predictable. The govt cannot print more money in a year than it says it needs.

Hopefully we have the technology to not need wheel barrows to carry our money.

Weimar is a range of issues and not just a problem of printing money.

Are you two advocates of taxation or small govt advocates and so want neither tax nor QE?

Wootah wrote:Yes but it would be controlled, in that the govt says, this year we need x billion for what we want to do and It would be controlled by the election process.

Do you really believe that the election process is controlling government spending. If so send me your money, I've got a nice bridge in NY city, or if you prefer some land in Fla.

Wootah wrote:The govt cannot print more money in a year than it says it needs.

Jesus Christ, please take another look at that sentence! How many trillion dollars do you think the government might come up with, and, of course, that would be just for starters until they realized there actually is a Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy all rolled up into one!

What government?
Where would government come from? How would it be instituted? Constituted? What, besides printing money, would be its responsibilities? What would its support structure be? How could it enforce its decisions? Why should anybody obey it? How would it relate to/ interact with other national governments?

As a manual for running a nation, "stop taxation" leaves a few blank pages.

I know it is a naive question on many levels. Just hoping people will get past that or not.

As philosophers perhaps we can look at the issue and see what is good or bad about it or not.

The taxation problem has been raised many times, in many forms. it usually generates discussion, but it's a sort of free-floating receptacle of drive-by opinions, with no anchor in reality; therefore, pointless.

If you wanted meaningful discussion, you'd have to start with an actual philosophy of governance.

What is the purpose of a governing body? For whose benefit does it exist? like that.

I'm glad Bob the Baptist is here to set you straight. The only proper function of government is social integration, like a traffic cop, to keep people from running into each other. The only proper form of taxation is an ad valorem tax on everything that has intrinsic market value. Any questions, just ask.

bobevenson wrote:I'm glad Bob the Baptist is here to set you straight. The only proper function of government is social integration, like a traffic cop, to keep people from running into each other. The only proper form of taxation is an ad valorem tax on everything that has intrinsic market value. Any questions, just ask.

I'm listening - please explain why the only proper form of taxation is an ad valorem tax on everything that has intrinsic market value?

Wootah wrote:

bobevenson wrote:I'm glad Bob the Baptist is here to set you straight. The only proper function of government is social integration, like a traffic cop, to keep people from running into each other. The only proper form of taxation is an ad valorem tax on everything that has intrinsic market value. Any questions, just ask.

I'm listening - please explain why the only proper form of taxation is an ad valorem tax on everything that has intrinsic market value?

The intrinsic market value of property is fundamentally the only resource available to cover the cost of government, which is also charged with protecting the ownership and value of such property. Therefore, all property must be taxed, with no exemptions, at the lowest rate possible in the absence of all other taxes such as income tax, sales tax, etc.