Why Poverty?

How should society be organised, if at all?

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chaz wyman
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by chaz wyman »

tillingborn wrote:
bobevenson wrote:My friend, you know nothing at all about economics, so you would be wise to stay away from the subject altogether.
Well bob, my friend, you don't seem to know a great deal about reality, but it is gratifying to see you heed your own advice. How is anyone to learn anything by staying away from what they don't know?
Good rejoinder.
bobevenson
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by bobevenson »

chaz wyman wrote:Do you really think that sacking all teachers and getting people to buy their kids education will result in the next generation being better educated or less educated?
Well, first of all, I wouldn't want the government to sack anybody since the government knows less about economics than you do. The only proper function of government, however, is social integration, like a traffic cop keeping people from running over each other, not owning, operating, supporting or promoting anything. People can make the best educational decisions for themselves if given the opportunity, which they don't have today. As Milton Friedman once said, "If the government were in charge of the Sahara desert, in five years there would be a shortage of sand." Friedman was an early advocate of free choice in education, such that parents could spend their school tax dollars on the school of their choice. Friedman received the 1976 Nobel Prize for economics.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by reasonvemotion »

"If you are poor enough and your schooling is bad enough, you don't really have an opportunity to compete".
bobevenson
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by bobevenson »

reasonvemotion wrote:"If you are poor enough and your schooling is bad enough, you don't really have an opportunity to compete".
Yes, and schools run by the government are certainly bad enough.
tillingborn
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by tillingborn »

bobevenson wrote:You and other socialists want the government to run everything, and bring economics to a screeching halt, like the U.S. government running the postal service into the ground. Any economist worth his salt knows that a free market is the only way to improve anything by offering goods and services that people want to buy at the prices they want to pay.
There is no free market my friend bob. Business in the UK and US is supported by anti union legislation. In a free market workers could negotiate the sale of their labour without government interference.
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Notvacka
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by Notvacka »

Essential viewing. That Paul Ryan character is particularly infuriating to watch.
bobevenson
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by bobevenson »

tillingborn wrote:There is no free market my friend bob. Business in the UK and US is supported by anti union legislation. In a free market workers could negotiate the sale of their labour without government interference.
What do you mean? When somebody hires somebody to do something at an agreed upon price, that's a free market with nobody holding a gun to anybody's head. With unions, the government decrees that an employer has to negotioate with them. That, my friend, is a classic example of extortion.
chaz wyman
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by chaz wyman »

reasonvemotion wrote:"If you are poor enough and your schooling is bad enough, you don't really have an opportunity to compete".
Indeed, and that applies in the US every bit as much as in the UK.
With fee-paying schools far out of the reach of ordinary people the chance of a first class education is nil for most people.
Add to that people like Bob actively denigrating the state system, and arguing for less tax, there is little hope for ordinary children to compete.
chaz wyman
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by chaz wyman »

tillingborn wrote:
bobevenson wrote:You and other socialists want the government to run everything, and bring economics to a screeching halt, like the U.S. government running the postal service into the ground. Any economist worth his salt knows that a free market is the only way to improve anything by offering goods and services that people want to buy at the prices they want to pay.
There is no free market my friend bob. Business in the UK and US is supported by anti union legislation. In a free market workers could negotiate the sale of their labour without government interference.
Quite right most of the hard fought for union rights have been swept away by legislation that favours exploitative employment practices.
Not satisfied with that the same people who have denied ordinary workers their union representation have cooked up tax cuts for themselves. Now we have a situation where the CEO, getting an average of 230X the wages of his staff, pays less tax than his secretary.
chaz wyman
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by chaz wyman »

Notvacka wrote:
Essential viewing. That Paul Ryan character is particularly infuriating to watch.
I got quite angry. The other films in the series are also excellent.
bobevenson
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by bobevenson »

chaz wyman wrote:Now we have a situation where the CEO, getting an average of 230X the wages of his staff, pays less tax than his secretary.
First of all, as I have explained earlier, the only proper tax is a single tax on property. Income taxes are improper taxes. Second, in a free-market economy (the only proper economy), it makes not a whit of difference what one person is paid relative to what another person is paid. Third, if you start with income taxes, which are improper, and institute deductions, which are also improper, how the hell can you say what taxes anybody should pay since the entire system is a scam from start to finish.
Last edited by bobevenson on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mickthinks
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by mickthinks »

First of all, as I have explained earlier, the only proper tax is a single tax on property.

By "explained" it seems you mean "ordained", Bob. You don't seem to be capable of explanation (or any other form of rational discourse).
bobevenson
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by bobevenson »

mickthinks wrote:First of all, as I have explained earlier, the only proper tax is a single tax on property.

By "explained" it seems you mean "ordained", Bob. You don't seem to be capable of explanation (or any other form of rational discourse).
It's difficult to believe that somebody from Augsburg would have difficulty understanding my treatise on taxes since it was based strictly on Rheinheitsgebot, the language purity law.
mickthinks
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by mickthinks »

bobevenson wrote:
mickthinks wrote:First of all, as I have explained earlier, the only proper tax is a single tax on property.

By "explained" it seems you mean "ordained", Bob. You don't seem to be capable of explanation (or any other form of rational discourse).
It's difficult to believe that somebody from Augsburg would have difficulty understanding my treatise on taxes since it was based strictly on Rheinheitsgebot, the language purity law.
lol QED

If anyone needed persuading that Mr Evenson was incapable of rational discourse, I think this should be proof enough! Those who have been convinced may like to know that the PhiNow forum software will help you to ignore every post he makes automatically. Just go to his profile page (there's a link button at the bottom of each post) and click on the [Add foe] option under his name on the left hand side.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why Poverty?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Why Private Education Shouldn't Get a Cent from Government

Catherine Deveny, an outspoken advocate of public education, tells us why she’s so passionate on the topic – and where she believes Abbott and Gillard are going wrong.

‘There is no question of injustice to public schools here,’ Tony Abbott told an independent education forum this week. ‘If anything, the injustice is the other way.‘’ Spoken like a true private school boy.

"People like Abbott assume everyone is rich, white, literate, middle class, straight, fully abled and fully functional, belonging to families with a wife/mother who nurtures and a father/husband who provides. They take for granted the head start provided by those solid foundations, which are not available to all students."

Anyone who drives past schools occasionally (let alone visits them frequently) would agree with Shaun Carney, The Age newspaper, that the ‘education facilities and learning opportunities at government schools are substandard compared with the elite private schools’.

A reader comments on this article and summed it up.

‘Tony Abbott needs to learn what injustice is. Injustice is families in Frankston North who can’t afford to send their children to school with lunch, who can’t afford uniforms, who can’t afford rent in what is already supposedly a low cost housing area.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard was no better at Monday’s ‘Suck Up To Independent Schools So We Get More Votes’ conference. Here’s her two cents:

‘I’ve never looked at a big independent (private) school in an established suburb and thought, That’s not fair’, she said. ‘’I look at a big independent school in an established suburb and think, That’s a great example.’


WTF and they are our elected leaders in Australia.

I would like to add, I did not vote for either.
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