iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:29 pm
Specifics, eh?
Okay, an omniscient Christian God knows of the terrible, terrible suffering that has been inflicted upon millions and millions of men, women and children as a result of wars down through the ages.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:41 pm So "wars"? "Wars" are God's fault, are they? No human involvement there?
Humans are involved, sure. But humans are neither omniscient nor omnipotent.
Note to the humans reading this:
If you were omnipotent and had the power to stop Putin in Ukraine, to end the terrible suffering --
https://central.asia-news.com/en_GB/art ... feature-01 -- of countless tens of thousands or truly innocent men, women and children, would you do it? If you knew someone who had this power and refused to use it, would this or would this not really piss you off?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:41 pm That makes no difference. They could be knowledgeable or ignorant, powerful or only powerful in a limted way, and the problem would be identical.
How truly ridiculous --
stupid? -- do you have to be to insist that the Christian God and mere mortals here on planet Earth are in an identical position in regard to the horrors unfolding in Ukraine? God sees all there, God is powerful enough to end the terrible suffering in a heartbeat. We're neither one.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:41 pm The question is,
do you think human beings can have any say about what happens to them, or is that exclusively something you blame on God?
Yes, but some mere mortals, in lacking omniscience, say the war is rational and just, while others insist it is irrational and unjust. And both sincerely belief that they are right. But that's down here. "Up there" on Judgment Day is when God weighs in on what sends you up or what sends you down. In the end, it
always comes down to God's Judgment...right?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:41 pm No doubt. But let's think about that.
Maybe you can describe exactly how He'd do that. Let's play that out, and see how you think it would go.
Man wants to go to war. God's going to stop it.
How? What do you want Him to do?
Huh?
Omnipotent: (of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything
How would any mere mortal describe how God would do it? That he could do it but does not need be as far as we go. After all, why do you suppose Rabbi Harold Kushner wrote a best seller suggesting that human pain and suffering continues precisely because the God of Abraham is indeed loving just and merciful, is indeed omniscient...just not omnipotent.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:41 pm It's a very reasonable question. You are implying God is derelict in some aspect of what he "should have done," so to speak. It's only fair you tell us what you think he
should have done, in detail.
How would "I", fractured and fragmented in regard to conflicting goods of this sort, even begin to tell an omniscient God what He should do?!!
Do you even think through your points at all?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:41 pm If you didn't know, you could never accuse Him of having failed to have done it.
Again, how could I possibly know this when, from my frame of mind, what I do
think I know of the Ukrainian conflict is derived existentially from dasein. Same as you. That's the part that revolves around the fact that, unlike the Christian God, we are
not omniscient.
Really, really think about that okay?
Some men want to go to war. Especially those who own and operate the military industrial complex. What, do you think the ghastly weapon systems employed by Putin and sent to Ukraine by Biden and NATO governments grow on trees? Do you think the arms manufactures just donated these weapons to Zelenskyy?
And what of those Christians who are trying to end the conflict? Shouldn't they be thinking to themselves, "if God wanted the war to end, He would end it. He doesn't so maybe I should do what I can to sustain it myself."
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:41 pm Right. So exactly
what would a "good" God, in your estimation, do in order to prevent that?
Well, this is only a particular political prejudice of mine derived existentially from dasein, but He could frown of those who profit from the terrible suffering that He refuses to end in Ukraine. He could end the war so that they are no longer able to.
Note to others:
Here it comes...
"You refuse to
DEFINE dasein so anything that you have to say about it is irrelevant."
Also, he is back to "snipping" again, isn't he? Why do you suppose he does that?