The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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Gary Childress
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:25 pm
However, not everyone wants to work in the field of public service. Some people just want more money so they can have nice flashy things that others don't have. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Should I advocate that people who want wealth and want to stand out should not be allowed to attain it?
You make it sound like everybody is either Mother Teresa or the guy on the Monopoly box. :wink:
You might be surprised how many people are out for more money only to blow it on bass boats, 4-wheeler ATVs, sports cars, travel, rock concerts and other unneeded distractions. Meanwhile, if you observe some other demographic or ethnic groups out there, they're concentrating on and successfully sending their kids (or themselves) to college on a shoestring budget.
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:25 pmThey pay taxes -- and far too many of them -- and watch their government wash that money down the sink, with only a paltry bit of it coming back in services.
Marxists say virtually the same thing about the excesses of private owners of industry. It's much the same talking point as profit being the "unpaid wage of the worker." You practically parrot it in your last line:
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:25 pmIt's the public's money, stolen from their labour and creativity by the government.
I mean, politicians are overpaid, over lobbied and overfunded by wealthy interests whether they be private individuals or corporations. Private enterprise is every bit as culpable. There's scandal no matter which sector you look in and harping only on the institution of government as the culprit is only half the equation. It gets annoying listing to it after a while.

I work for a non-profit organization contracted with the county government to administer public mental health services. It gets painful to watch our clients floundering every day without means, hope or much purpose. We're all underpaid (managers and staff) compared to what our counterparts in the premium sector receive while they perform premium services for those with the means to afford it. I mean, I'm not asking for more pay, I live with my folks so I don't have to pay rent and can therefore afford to live reasonably well on the wages I make. It's a different story for many of my colleagues. But we are underfunded. Our IT department is substandard. We're chronically understaffed, especially in the nursing dept. Finding affordable housing that will put up with the special issues our clients have is extremely difficult. Getting them transported to receive our services is extremely difficult sometimes.

The State I work in is run by a Republican governor and we're ranked something like 49th or 50th among the US states in public mental health spending, so taxpayers are indeed getting what they pay for. If you want to complain about some of the civic dumpsters like Chicago and whatnot being administrated by Democrats, you have to acknowledge too that the Republicans are just as guilty. And Fox News is just as much a trash bin as CNN, MSN and most of the other privately owned and operated news outlets. I don't know what world you're living in, but most people I know turn to NPR or PBS (public media sources) for more sane news. So if you wish to trash public institutions, try working in our trenches for a while.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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Gary Childress wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:27 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:25 pm
However, not everyone wants to work in the field of public service. Some people just want more money so they can have nice flashy things that others don't have. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Should I advocate that people who want wealth and want to stand out should not be allowed to attain it?
You make it sound like everybody is either Mother Teresa or the guy on the Monopoly box. :wink:
You might be surprised how many people are out for more money only to blow it on bass boats, 4-wheeler ATVs, sports cars, travel, rock concerts and other unneeded distractions.
I don't think I would.

But, of course, that is their prerogative. If a family that lives on welfare spends its cash on cigarettes, alcohol and marijuana, and TV subscriptions, rather than food for their children -- which, by the way, they very often do, as you'll know if you've been in those homes -- then what do you want? What do you want if mentally ill people insist on not going to shelters, and wandering through the streets with shopping carts, or huffing in the park? You want to send in the FBI to cuff them?

Some people aren't very smart. Some people aren't very moral. Some are mentally ill. Some are corrupt. Some crave distraction. And others just have different values than you and I do. But really, it's not for you and I to sit in judgment on how people spend their money. After all, we've probably been to a concert or other "distraction" before, haven't we? They earned it, and they spend it. (Well, unless they were on welfare or public assistance, in which case, they didn't earn it at all.) But it's still not our business to force them to do the right thing, is it?
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:25 pmThey pay taxes -- and far too many of them -- and watch their government wash that money down the sink, with only a paltry bit of it coming back in services.
Marxists say virtually the same thing about the excesses of private owners of industry.
Marxists are simpletons. Even the Neo-Marxists recognize that, and refer to their Marxism as "crude Marxism." (That's their term, by the way; they do it so they can position themselves as the "sophisticated Neo-Marxists, who don't have to live with Marx's now-obviously-wrong statements.)

Marx was all for big government. But government (and you'll know this if you've worked for them) does nothing well. Whatever they take over squirts money from every pore. Waste, waste, waste on every side. And, of course, they're the ones who help the 1% get richer; why else are guys like Zuckerberg or Bezos or Gates so favourable to big government? It's simple: it helps them be even richer.
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:25 pmIt's the public's money, stolen from their labour and creativity by the government.
I mean, politicians are overpaid, over lobbied and overfunded by wealthy interests whether they be private individuals or corporations.
It's not their "pay" that you have to worry about; that's small potatoes. The big money is in manipulating the power and public funds to achieve their own ends. Look at Nancy Pelosi: everybody knows beyond any reasonable doubt that her family's stock portfolio has not performed the way it did without information from her. The greatest investment bankers in the private sector can't reproduce her results. And it's pretty obvious she's not smart enough to pick world-record stocks herself. Some some shady stuff has gone on there, for sure. That sort of big government manoeuvering is where the big money comes from.
I work for a non-profit organization contracted with the county government to administer public mental health services. It gets painful to watch our clients floundering every day without means, hope or much purpose.
And your assumption is that the mentally ill wouldn't be mentally ill if they had more money?
We're all underpaid (managers and staff) compared to what our counterparts in the premium sector receive while they perform premium services for those with the means to afford it.
I don't doubt it. But look at what's happening: you've got the most pro-socialist government in American history running the White House and the House of Representatives right now. If Socialists love you so much, how come your situation isn't getting better, and fast?

Do the math, Gary. They don't care about you. And they sure don't care about the mentally ill.
If you want to complain about some of the civic dumpsters like Chicago and whatnot being administrated by Democrats, you have to acknowledge too that the Republicans are just as guilty.
There are Repubs who are just as guilty. And I think that probably there are even more Dems that are. But let's agree on that.

Why they would you want to put even more power in their hands? Is your assumption that if you give them everything, they'll turn moral? :shock:
...if you wish to trash public institutions, try working in our trenches for a while.
Been there. Done that. Learned my lesson. Government does nothing well. Nothing. Even the things we actually need them for, like roads, borders and military, they do horribly badly, leaking our money all the time. It's not a matter of speculation, Gary: it's obvious fact. You can see it all the time, in every bill they ever pass.

So how would turning to even bigger government help this government become a better government? :shock:
Gary Childress
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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IC I'm sorry to hear that you have had bad experiences with government. I'm only talking about programs designed to help those that no one else is helping. I'm not talking about government programs that fleece the public like defense spending. I'm talking about government programs that are actually designed to help the disenfranchised-- manned by people who are doing those jobs because they feel the compassion to do what those who flock to private industry won't, because privat industry pays better but serves only those who can afford it..

As far as leaving the mentally ill to decline on the streets, that's pretty harsh, don't you think?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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Gary Childress wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:11 pm IC I'm sorry to hear that you have had bad experiences with government.
Everybody has.
I'm only talking about programs designed to help those that no one else is helping.
Like?
I'm talking about government programs that are actually designed to help the disenfranchised-- manned by people who are doing those jobs because they feel the compassion to do what those who flock to private industry won't, because privat industry pays better but serves only those who can afford it..
Gary, Gary, Gary...you're in one such industry. Nobody in private industry cares about the mentally ill. Yet you're starving for dollars, and watching the government go on without a care.
As far as leaving the mentally ill to decline on the streets, that's pretty harsh, don't you think?
That is EXACTLY what our government did a few years ago. They paraded it under the banner of "cost savings," but also under the "normalizing / mainstreaming the mentally ill" banners. It shut all the mental hospitals and treatment facilities, save a few, and turfed the inmates out into the street.

That's right: they told us that shutting down all the health services for the mentally ill was doing them a favour by "mainstreaming" them into the regular population. :shock: And now they're all drug and alcohol addicted, living on the streets, and dying of the weather. And the government has not a care about it...even though it's now by far the most Socialist government in our history!

How many times does the government have to betray us before we say "Enough"?

And you want to see these jokers have MORE power? Why, Gary, why? What's going to make them behave any better than they already are?
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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You live in a strange world, IC, apparently one inhabited by people who don't care for others. You're welcome to visit the world I live in where government programs for the mentally ill are failing because they are underfunded because people with means don't want to pay taxes to help those without.

But to be honest, I think you're living out of touch with some of the institutions you are criticizing and don't really know what is going on at ground level. I see that a lot. So you're not alone. Have a good day.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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Gary Childress wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:54 pm You live in a strange world, IC,
Same kind as you. I just see it clearer.
You're welcome to visit the world I live in where government programs for the mentally ill are failing because they are underfunded because people with means don't want to pay taxes to help those without.
Gary, Gary, Gary...your own government just frittered away billions on crap that has nothing to do with your welfare, or that of the inmates where you work, and you blame recalcitrant tax payers? You think the government, that, say, sends billions to Ukraine is handicapped to help you, because their pals like Bezos aren't paying their taxes?

And you think you're seeing the world clearly? :shock:
Gary Childress
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:31 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:54 pm You live in a strange world, IC,
Same kind as you. I just see it clearer.
You're welcome to visit the world I live in where government programs for the mentally ill are failing because they are underfunded because people with means don't want to pay taxes to help those without.
Gary, Gary, Gary...your own government just frittered away billions on crap that has nothing to do with your welfare, or that of the inmates where you work, and you blame recalcitrant tax payers? You think the government, that, say, sends billions to Ukraine is handicapped to help you, because their pals like Bezos aren't paying their taxes?

And you think you're seeing the world clearly? :shock:
I told you I wasn't talking about military spending which is a true scandal. Bezos is not my "pal". And you don't seem to be understanding what I've written. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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Gary Childress wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:42 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:31 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:54 pm You live in a strange world, IC,
Same kind as you. I just see it clearer.
You're welcome to visit the world I live in where government programs for the mentally ill are failing because they are underfunded because people with means don't want to pay taxes to help those without.
Gary, Gary, Gary...your own government just frittered away billions on crap that has nothing to do with your welfare, or that of the inmates where you work, and you blame recalcitrant tax payers? You think the government, that, say, sends billions to Ukraine is handicapped to help you, because their pals like Bezos aren't paying their taxes?

And you think you're seeing the world clearly? :shock:
I told you I wasn't talking about military spending which is a true scandal. Bezos is not my "pal".
I didn't say he was. You don't seem to be understanding what I wrote: I wrote "their pals like Bezos," not "your pal."

How about the Dem's alleged "Inflation Reduction" bill? Do you think that's going to make things better for you or those you serve? Let's wait and see how much you get from that. :wink:
promethean75
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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This wicked man is not your brother and is leading you astray, Gary. Astray!
Gary Childress
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:53 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:42 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:31 pm
Same kind as you. I just see it clearer.


Gary, Gary, Gary...your own government just frittered away billions on crap that has nothing to do with your welfare, or that of the inmates where you work, and you blame recalcitrant tax payers? You think the government, that, say, sends billions to Ukraine is handicapped to help you, because their pals like Bezos aren't paying their taxes?

And you think you're seeing the world clearly? :shock:
I told you I wasn't talking about military spending which is a true scandal. Bezos is not my "pal".
I didn't say he was. You don't seem to be understanding what I wrote: I wrote "their pals like Bezos," not "your pal."

How about the Dem's alleged "Inflation Reduction" bill? Do you think that's going to make things better for you or those you serve? Let's wait and see how much you get from that. :wink:
I told you my state has the lowest mental health spending of just about every state in the Union. It shows in the scarcity of resources available for underserved communities. We have a Republican state governor. So if you think the Republicans are any better you need to come to reality.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:32 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:53 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:42 pm
I told you I wasn't talking about military spending which is a true scandal. Bezos is not my "pal".
I didn't say he was. You don't seem to be understanding what I wrote: I wrote "their pals like Bezos," not "your pal."

How about the Dem's alleged "Inflation Reduction" bill? Do you think that's going to make things better for you or those you serve? Let's wait and see how much you get from that. :wink:
I told you my state has the lowest mental health spending of just about every state in the Union. It shows in the scarcity of resources available for underserved communities.
And yet, the same administration you claim has "scarcity of resources" shovels money at the Ukraine, at the IRS, at corporate bailouts, or at PC causes of every kind, such as the EPA and "climate change," and then prints as much extra "funny money" as it wants? And you plead that they're "short of resources"? :shock:

Nope. Don't think so. Not buying that excuse.

It's not shortage of resources; it's that they literally do not care. Mental health is not even on their priority list. They like talking about how caring they are; they just don't like actually caring.
Gary Childress
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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I'm not talking about the Federal government. I'm talking about our state government which is run by a Republican governor and doesn't fund state mental health programs worth a shit. Nice red herring though. Getting pretty desperate eh?
Last edited by Gary Childress on Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
promethean75
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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work gary
Gary Childress
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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Gary Childress wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:42 pm I'm not talking about the Federal government. I'm talking about our state government which is run by a Republican governor and doesn't fund state mental health programs worth a shit. Nice red herring though. Getting pretty desperate eh?
I apologize for the tone of my post. I shouldn't be so bigotted and intollerant.

I'm for a mixed economy that allows individuals to flourish economically to a reasonable degree but that also encourages social values and fraternity. I also believe justice is imperative for a society to function appropriately.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The cracks in Capitalism are showing

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Gary Childress wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:42 pm I'm not talking about the Federal government. I'm talking about our state government which is run by a Republican governor and doesn't fund state mental health programs worth a shit. Nice red herring though. Getting pretty desperate eh?
I don't notice your Federal government doing anything for you...and the Dems have more power now they they ever have...or are likely to have, after November.

Government doesn't do squat for mental health. None of our parties have. You can tell yourself the Dems are different, but where is the evidence they are, Gary?
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