January 6th hearings

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attofishpi
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by attofishpi »

Hey, cheers Mr Sculptor..will also have a look at the vids later. My niece is studying nutrition (or something relative) at college, so have emailed her some of the above. :)
iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/20/opin ... ittee.html

'To indict Mr. Trump for these and other acts, Mr. Garland must make three decisions, each more difficult than the previous, and none of which has an obvious answer.

'First, he must determine whether the decision to indict Mr. Trump is his to make. If Mr. Garland decides that a criminal investigation of Mr. Trump is warranted, Justice Department regulations require him to appoint a special counsel if the investigation presents a conflict of interest for the department and if Mr. Garland believes such an appointment would be in the public interest.

'The department arguably faces a conflict of interest. Mr. Trump is a political adversary of Mr. Garland’s boss, President Biden. Mr. Trump is also Mr. Biden’s likeliest political opponent in the 2024 presidential election. Mr. Garland’s judgments impact the political fate of Mr. Biden and his own possible tenure in office. The appearance of a conflict sharpened when Mr. Biden reportedly told his inner circle that Mr. Trump was a threat to democracy and should be prosecuted, and complained about Mr. Garland’s dawdling on the matter.'


Special council works for me.

'If Mr. Garland opens a Trump investigation and keeps the case — decisions he might already have made — the second issue is whether he has adequate evidence to indict Mr. Trump. The basic question here is whether, in the words of Justice Department guidelines, Mr. Trump’s acts constitute a federal offense and “the admissible evidence will probably be sufficient to obtain and sustain a conviction.”

'These will be hard conclusions for Mr. Garland to reach. He would have to believe that the department could probably convince a unanimous jury that Mr. Trump committed crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. Mr. Garland cannot rest this judgment on the Jan. 6 committee’s one-sided factual recitations or legal contentions. Nor can he put much stock in a ruling by a federal judge who, in a civil subpoena dispute — a process that requires a significantly lower standard of proof to prevail than in a criminal trial — concluded that Mr. Trump (who was not represented) “more likely than not” committed a crime related to Jan. 6.

'Instead, Mr. Garland must assess how any charges against Mr. Trump would fare in an adversarial criminal proceeding administered by an independent judge, where Mr. Trump’s lawyers will contest the government’s factual and legal contentions, tell his side of events, raise many defenses and appeal every important adverse legal decision to the Supreme Court.'


All televised with any luck!

'If Mr. Garland concludes that Mr. Trump has committed convictable crimes, he would face the third and hardest decision: whether the national interest would be served by prosecuting Mr. Trump. This is not a question that lawyerly analysis alone can resolve. It is a judgment call about the nature, and fate, of our democracy.'

Back to those "deep state" power brokers behind the curtains above?
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attofishpi
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:29 am Knowledge is power as they say. I wish I had known about this stuff years ago.

Type2 is a scourge of modern life, and if you have it in the family your eating habits and genes are going to work against you.
The problem with most doctoring these days is that it tends to be crisis management. They do not act to prevent, and tend to wait for the problem to get critical before they act.
T2D is though treated badly. It is nothing like Type 1, which is an inability to make enough insulin. Type2 is because of chronic excess of insulin which has led to insulin resistance. So ironically most people get treated for too mush insulin with MORE insulin. But T2D is now being treated my more enlightened doctors with diet alone. And that simply means cutting out the carbs!
You really need to read Robert Lustig's book "Fat Chance". You can get a 2nd hand copy for £3 from Abe books.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y

Check this out too, Her voice is really annoying but what she says is spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ
I watched those videos last night, truly both were an eye opener. I particularly found Lustigs interesting, just wish I had all my Dad's brothers emails so I could forward some of this stuff on, might add a few years to their lives!
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Sculptor
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:34 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:29 am Knowledge is power as they say. I wish I had known about this stuff years ago.

Type2 is a scourge of modern life, and if you have it in the family your eating habits and genes are going to work against you.
The problem with most doctoring these days is that it tends to be crisis management. They do not act to prevent, and tend to wait for the problem to get critical before they act.
T2D is though treated badly. It is nothing like Type 1, which is an inability to make enough insulin. Type2 is because of chronic excess of insulin which has led to insulin resistance. So ironically most people get treated for too mush insulin with MORE insulin. But T2D is now being treated my more enlightened doctors with diet alone. And that simply means cutting out the carbs!
You really need to read Robert Lustig's book "Fat Chance". You can get a 2nd hand copy for £3 from Abe books.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y

Check this out too, Her voice is really annoying but what she says is spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ
I watched those videos last night, truly both were an eye opener. I particularly found Lustigs interesting, just wish I had all my Dad's brothers emails so I could forward some of this stuff on, might add a few years to their lives!
I do not use the phrase hero often but Lustig has taken on a lot; a massive establishment of misinformation and misdirection led by big pharma and big food.
He is moving the change forward and has some great allies. Gary Taubes, Nina Teicholz,
iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by iambiguous »

Thomas B. Edsall at the NYT

'Whether he is out of power or in office, Donald Trump deploys conspiracy theory as a political mobilizing tool designed to capture anger at the liberal establishment, to legitimize racial resentment and to unite voters who feel oppressed by what they see as a dominant socially progressive culture.

The success of this strategy is demonstrated by the astonishing number of Republicans — a decisive majority, according to a recent Economist/YouGov survey — who say that they believe that the Democratic Party and its elected officials conspired to steal the 2020 election. This is a certifiable conspiracy theory, defined as a belief in “a secret arrangement by a group of powerful people to usurp political or economic power, violate established rights, hoard vital secrets, or unlawfully alter government institutions.”'


This is the part that makes indicting Trump particularly tricky. Whether that happens before the November Congressional election or after that but before the 2024 presidential election, Trump's white working-class base could easily be riled up to take the country right over the edge into something analogous to fascism right here in America. Depending on other factors like the economy, social unrest, crime, and another covid resurgence.

And it certainly would be used to "get out the vote". The right-wing equivalent of the abortion issue?

So, the left wins the battle...but loses the war?
iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by iambiguous »

From ILP:
Sculptor wrote:
iambiguous wrote:Thomas B. Edsall at the NYT
— a decisive majority, according to a recent Economist/YouGov survey — who say that they believe that the Democratic Party and its elected officials conspired to steal the 2020 election.
I doubt this statement.
Not even the Amoronicans are that stupid surely.
Surely Murdoch's media is not so powerful to be able to pull off such a nonsensical lie.

Can you back this up?
Nope, I can't back up much of anything here. All I can speculate about is this: what if it is true that they believe it?

Is the left willing to roll the dice on an indictment?

This is over the top, sure, but what if the left in Nazi Germany had succeeded in indicting Adolph Hitler back then? Would that have ended his influence...or speeded it up all the more?
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Sculptor
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Sculptor »

iambiguous wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:22 pm From ILP:
Sculptor wrote:
iambiguous wrote:Thomas B. Edsall at the NYT
— a decisive majority, according to a recent Economist/YouGov survey — who say that they believe that the Democratic Party and its elected officials conspired to steal the 2020 election.
I doubt this statement.
Not even the Amoronicans are that stupid surely.
Surely Murdoch's media is not so powerful to be able to pull off such a nonsensical lie.

Can you back this up?
Nope, I can't back up much of anything here. All I can speculate about is this: what if it is true that they believe it?

Is the left willing to roll the dice on an indictment?

This is over the top, sure, but what if the left in Nazi Germany had succeeded in indicting Adolph Hitler back then? Would that have ended his influence...or speeded it up all the more?
They need to roll that dice because this cannot be allowed to happen again.


As fpr the substance of the claim. The guardian 1 year ago reported this: (16/Apr/2021)
"Six in 10 Republicans in that survey also said they believed “the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump.” That percentage of the sample would correspond with roughly 50 to 55 million Americans, Chris Jackson, the Ipsos senior vice-president for public affairs, told the Guardian."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ence-trump

One has to hope that those 60% who were that stupid, now have changed their minds.

Additionally, also after 1 year, it was reported that 30% of Americans succumbed to the big lie.
https://www.salon.com/2021/07/14/the-po ... k-fantasy/

I can't find more recent polls.
iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by iambiguous »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:05 pmThey need to roll that dice because this cannot be allowed to happen again.
Okay, but if they roll them and lose the Trumpworld throng here may not need another chance to bring what's left of American democracy crashing down.

At least recognize it as a gamble.
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Sculptor
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Sculptor »

iambiguous wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:30 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:05 pmThey need to roll that dice because this cannot be allowed to happen again.
Okay, but if they roll them and lose the Trumpworld throng here may not need another chance to bring what's left of American democracy crashing down.

At least recognize it as a gamble.
Actually it's just a question of power and cajones.
It's only a gamble for the individuals who take the steps.
It would be a massive gamble for the US to do nothing.
The Democrats and more importantly the Republicans hiding behind their small majorities need to grow some balls.
Take Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. I cannot know what was behind him to give that testimony, but his family were under threat. That conversation alone ought to be enough to see Trump in chains. Did he leak the phone call? Was he pressured to give testimony. Or did he have the balls?
We need more like him.
Consider the dire consequences of allowing Trump to get away scot free.
iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by iambiguous »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:58 am
iambiguous wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:30 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:05 pmThey need to roll that dice because this cannot be allowed to happen again.
Okay, but if they roll them and lose the Trumpworld throng here may not need another chance to bring what's left of American democracy crashing down.

At least recognize it as a gamble.
Actually it's just a question of power and cajones.
It's only a gamble for the individuals who take the steps.
It would be a massive gamble for the US to do nothing.
The Democrats and more importantly the Republicans hiding behind their small majorities need to grow some balls.
Take Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. I cannot know what was behind him to give that testimony, but his family were under threat. That conversation alone ought to be enough to see Trump in chains. Did he leak the phone call? Was he pressured to give testimony. Or did he have the balls?
We need more like him.
Consider the dire consequences of allowing Trump to get away scot free.
Or...

Think of the dire consequences of both a MAGA Congress and a MAGA White House. Meaning an even more reactionary cast among the Supremes.
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Sculptor
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Sculptor »

iambiguous wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:26 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:58 am
iambiguous wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:30 pm

Okay, but if they roll them and lose the Trumpworld throng here may not need another chance to bring what's left of American democracy crashing down.

At least recognize it as a gamble.
Actually it's just a question of power and cajones.
It's only a gamble for the individuals who take the steps.
It would be a massive gamble for the US to do nothing.
The Democrats and more importantly the Republicans hiding behind their small majorities need to grow some balls.
Take Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. I cannot know what was behind him to give that testimony, but his family were under threat. That conversation alone ought to be enough to see Trump in chains. Did he leak the phone call? Was he pressured to give testimony. Or did he have the balls?
We need more like him.
Consider the dire consequences of allowing Trump to get away scot free.
Or...

Think of the dire consequences of both a MAGA Congress and a MAGA White House. Meaning an even more reactionary cast among the Supremes.
Indeed.
Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail!
iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by iambiguous »

iambiguous wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:26 pmThink of the dire consequences of both a MAGA Congress and a MAGA White House. Meaning an even more reactionary cast among the Supremes.
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:32 pm Indeed.
Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail!
Then back to this:

"...what if the left in Nazi Germany had succeeded in throwing Adolph Hitler in jail back then? Would that have ended his influence...or speeded it up all the more?"

Just out of curiosity, are you an American citizen? I mean, if the left rolls the dice and we do end up with "sieg heil!" this and "sieg heil!" that, you'll be here with the rest of us bearing the brunt of the consequences, right?
promethean75
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by promethean75 »

I just need you to find 11,780 votes for me. So go ahead and make that happen, chief.
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Sculptor
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Sculptor »

iambiguous wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:46 pm
iambiguous wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:26 pmThink of the dire consequences of both a MAGA Congress and a MAGA White House. Meaning an even more reactionary cast among the Supremes.
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:32 pm Indeed.
Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail!
Then back to this:

"...what if the left in Nazi Germany had succeeded in throwing Adolph Hitler in jail back then? Would that have ended his influence...or speeded it up all the more?"
They (not the "left" but the police) did throw him in gaol. That's where he wrote Mein Kampf.
But he was still young.
Trump is practically already dead and would spend the next ten years on legal appeals until he died.

Just out of curiosity, are you an American citizen? I mean, if the left rolls the dice and we do end up with "sieg heil!" this and "sieg heil!" that, you'll be here with the rest of us bearing the brunt of the consequences, right?
I am technically an American, but have lived in the UK most of my life.
Americans like to back winners. A Trump who was facing gaol would not look so attractive.
I reject the idea that the threat from Trump will be more if convicted.
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Sculptor
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Sculptor »

promethean75 wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:50 pm I just need you to find 11,780 votes for me. So go ahead and make that happen, chief.
And my thugs are going to threaten your family of you do not.
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