The Blame Game

How should society be organised, if at all?

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simplicity
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The Blame Game

Post by simplicity »

The problem with blaming capitalism for all of the world's problems is that it diverts attention from the way things really are, that is, putting efforts towards solving complex multi-dimensional problems along with acknowledging multiple issues that are just part of our nature and will never be eradicated [inequality being the poster child for the later condition].

If you have studied economics to some degree, you might understand that capitalism, like most complex systems, comes with a plethora of issues, contradictions, and successes, as well. This is an economic system that has generated incredible social wealth and transformed entire societies in a manner of decades. China [although a economic basket-case because of their excesses] is a perfect example. Who could have pictured contemporary Shanghai in 1980?

All of the problems that exist today have existed throughout history [albeit in different forms/degrees]. As a matter of fact, I am not sure there are any issues that can be placed at capitalism's doorstep. After all, capitalism is an economic system made up of people. What makes this system so much more advanced is that it incorporates democratic principles [the market determining success/failure] and presents opportunity for nearly anybody to participate at all levels.

Like any complex system, capitalism has it's contradictions, but the actual design of the system is a far cry ahead of what preceded [systems based on family, race, caste, gender, etc.]. Capitalism cares not for the color of a person's skin, their religion, nor any other personal characteristics, only their ability to uphold their financial obligations under law.

Of course, there are individuals, groups, and societies that played the system for their own gain, but this is what human beings have done from the beginning and since we are in a particularly ugly phase at the moment, this tendency for massive corruption does not appear as if it going to be selected out of human behavior any time soon. It's just the way we seem to behave in groups.

I would be interested in hearing from those [and there seem to be a fair amount of anti-capitalism sentiment here] who believe that if you could somehow change to a different economic system, human behavior would change [and why that would be the case]. In other words, is it systems that make people do what they do or is it human nature that would turn every system into 'new and improved' shit, different day sort of thing?

And please...if you don't have anything constructive to add, refrain. Thanks.
simplicity
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Re: The Blame Game

Post by simplicity »

I wanted to thank the usual suspects for refraining from hurling any personal attacks, etc., my way. I am a bit disappointed that nobody took up the challenge in that this narrative seems to hold so much sway with the current anti-establishment crowd [particularly in academia where left-leaning professor-types seem completely disconnected with the workings of the real world].

Although I am no great fan of any system, one must take a step back and appreciate the economic progress that has been achieved over the past century and a half and why this has happened. As well, and although nobody deserves to accumulate vast fortunes, do not underestimate the contributions made by individuals that have sacrificed a great deal of their lives to discover/develop/invent things that have vastly improved the quality of our lives.

Also keep in mind that this current "winner take all" style of capitalism that came into being through the changing of many, many laws in the 80's/90's can and should be reset to the previous era where CEO's and other high earners did a lot better than everybody else [as they should], but earning incredible multiples of the average worker's compensation [which is counterproductive in every way] was unheard of.

In any case, I would still welcome a debate on the above. Thanks.
trokanmariel
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Re: The Blame Game

Post by trokanmariel »

simplicity wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:17 pm The problem with blaming capitalism for all of the world's problems is that it diverts attention from the way things really are, that is, putting efforts towards solving complex multi-dimensional problems along with acknowledging multiple issues that are just part of our nature and will never be eradicated [inequality being the poster child for the later condition].

If you have studied economics to some degree, you might understand that capitalism, like most complex systems, comes with a plethora of issues, contradictions, and successes, as well. This is an economic system that has generated incredible social wealth and transformed entire societies in a manner of decades. China [although a economic basket-case because of their excesses] is a perfect example. Who could have pictured contemporary Shanghai in 1980?

All of the problems that exist today have existed throughout history [albeit in different forms/degrees]. As a matter of fact, I am not sure there are any issues that can be placed at capitalism's doorstep. After all, capitalism is an economic system made up of people. What makes this system so much more advanced is that it incorporates democratic principles [the market determining success/failure] and presents opportunity for nearly anybody to participate at all levels.

Like any complex system, capitalism has it's contradictions, but the actual design of the system is a far cry ahead of what preceded [systems based on family, race, caste, gender, etc.]. Capitalism cares not for the color of a person's skin, their religion, nor any other personal characteristics, only their ability to uphold their financial obligations under law.

Of course, there are individuals, groups, and societies that played the system for their own gain, but this is what human beings have done from the beginning and since we are in a particularly ugly phase at the moment, this tendency for massive corruption does not appear as if it going to be selected out of human behavior any time soon. It's just the way we seem to behave in groups.

I would be interested in hearing from those [and there seem to be a fair amount of anti-capitalism sentiment here] who believe that if you could somehow change to a different economic system, human behavior would change [and why that would be the case]. In other words, is it systems that make people do what they do or is it human nature that would turn every system into 'new and improved' shit, different day sort of thing?

And please...if you don't have anything constructive to add, refrain. Thanks.

Thank you, for the opportunity to discuss the realities of the reality. The first point of interest, is "the market determining success/failure" dimension. The reason, for this being a point of interest, is that it is pre-empted by daylight's inherent condition.

Daylight is a system of before is after. By being that type of system, it surely pre-empts or precludes the basis of capitalism, which is to be an honest system of success and failure: if daylight supercedes capitalism, and daylight means that before is after, all momentum within capitalism's system is pointless. Thus, capitalism is not just a killer of people, but, it is an unjust killer of people.
promethean75
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Re: The Blame Game

Post by promethean75 »

Capitalism can be pretty bad at nighttime too, ya know.
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attofishpi
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Re: The Blame Game

Post by attofishpi »

simplicity wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:39 pm I wanted to thank the usual suspects for refraining from hurling any personal attacks, etc., my way.

In any case, I would still welcome a debate on the above. Thanks.
I would love to attack you personally, but alas, I don't know you personally. If you could help me out by listing everything that is a flaw in your personality, that would be a good start.
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attofishpi
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Re: The Blame Game

Post by attofishpi »

promethean75 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:52 pm Capitalism can be pretty bad at nighttime too, ya know.
I love that wackjob, I think all this vampires' posts are related to daylight for some reason.
trokanmariel
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Re: The Blame Game

Post by trokanmariel »

promethean75 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:52 pm Capitalism can be pretty bad at nighttime too, ya know.


Daylight is ultimately a proxy term, for another dimension. The ulterior dimension could be known as the reset reality, as daylight (and indeed, nighttime) is about reset.

Observation is a left to right sequence, ergo, a one type contrast, meaning that the universal type contrast of daylight is wrong, because daylight needs observation.
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